Slotting: time tested, mother approved.

[BRASSO]

If you were trying to convey sarcasm in your OP, you may want to learn how to convey it better in text.

'Can't much argue with that.

Edited June 27, 2014 by BRASSO

[GeneralTsoChicken]

I thought Boston Crusaders had a pretty good show in 2002...

Better than BD? Be honest with yourself, now. It was a great show! It even peaked at the right time. But, really, better than BD?

[vanguard87]

-in what year was Bluecoats among the best three performing corps and fail to medal?

Bluecoats 2007. Beat all other corps at one point in that year, but ended up in 7th.

That all of the top 7 beat each other at some point that year is evidence against slotting, not for.

I was at finals that year. True, the Cadevaliers were the top 3, but they were clearly a cut above 4-7 on finals night (and IMO they clearly finished in the correct order 1-2-3). As for 4-7, it's a shame that it's so easy to remember placement and so hard to remember scores.IIRC there was something like 0.6 separating 4th from 7th (and IMO the four really were that close). It was a four-corps pile-up that someone had to be on the bottom of. Tough break, but I don't think you can claim that Bloo was clearly better than Regiment that night (or vice versa).

[jjeffeory]

That all of the top 7 beat each other at some point that year is evidence against slotting, not for.

I was at finals that year. True, the Cadevaliers were the top 3, but they were clearly a cut above 4-7 on finals night (and IMO they clearly finished in the correct order 1-2-3). As for 4-7, it's a shame that it's so easy to remember placement and so hard to remember scores.IIRC there was something like 0.6 separating 4th from 7th (and IMO the four really were that close). It was a four-corps pile-up that someone had to be on the bottom of. Tough break, but I don't think you can claim that Bloo was clearly better than Regiment that night (or vice versa).

I was simply going through the exercise. I buy what you're saying though.

The counter of your first sentence is that everyone beat everyone at some point in the year, yet the Cadevaliers ended up 1, 2, 3 in the end. Just the way slotting would have had them.

There have been other years like that year, but where the Cadevaliers did not end up 1, 2, 3, in the end. I dunno, I was just going through the exercise trying to find situations where the question could be true, and those were the years that popped out at me. I'm wondering what other people thought who believe in the slotting idea.

...and to be fair, I'm on the fence about slotting. Seems like sometimes it happens, and sometimes not, BUT that's just MY PERSONAL feeling.

[BoyWonder1911]

Better than BD? Be honest with yourself, now. It was a great show! It even peaked at the right time. But, really, better than BD?

lol...no. I didn't mean to suggest that they were better than Blue Devils.

Someone had mentioned that 2002 was an awful year for drum corps, but Boston's show was pretty good.

In fact, 2002 was the first year I ever went to see a live competition. It was in Indy at the old RCA dome for the late-July regional.

In fact, Spirit's "TIME" show was really good, too.

I'm just going to have to reminisce for a minute. Being my first time ever going to a live show, having only seen PBS broadcasts since 1999, when Spirit came onto the field, I thought I had seen some really cool groups up until then. But then I got my first taste of Wall of Brass served to me on a silver platter, from Spirit, and I haven't been able to get enough since. Been an avid DCI fan ever since.

What's funny is that the only show themes I can remember from that year 2002 is Spirit, Boston and then Cavaliers, who can forget Frameworks? Everyone else was kinda forgettable. I don't even remember what Blue Devils did, I'd have to look it up. I think Crossmen started our their show in a giant X. I remember that. And wait - Madison did Red Gold and Green, or something like that. Phantom did some kind of Russian show. But Boston, Spirit and Cavs stuck out the most.

I also went to the same competition the next year, in 2003, and I remember Blue Devils "Phenomenon of Cool". That was a memorable show. Spin Cycle was incredible as well. Same with Phantom Regiment, doing Harmonic Journey. Incredible program. Carolina Crown "Bellissimo" I remember as well. I even remember thinking to myself that this corps was on their way up and was going places soon. It was the next year, when they did Bohemia, that I was disappointed, because I really didn't like that program all that much at all.

Everyone else, I kinda forgot what they did.

Edited June 27, 2014 by BoyWonder1911

[vanguard87]

The counter of your first sentence is that everyone beat everyone at some point in the year, yet the Cadevaliers ended up 1, 2, 3 in the end. Just the way slotting would have had them.

...and to be fair, I'm on the fence about slotting. Seems like sometimes it happens, and sometimes not, BUT that's just MY PERSONAL feeling.

And as I said, by Pasadena it was clear they had pulled away. No slotting needed.

Anyway I don't mean to quibble about specific examples. My point is that it's very easy to toss the word "slotting" around but very difficult, at best, to point to clear-cut examples of it.

Now competitive inertia, on the other hand, is a very real thing IMO, especially the first couple weeks of the season.

[chris ncsu]

Who was going to beat them? '02, outside of Cavaliers, was a dreadful year of drum corps. The smelly cadets? Boston? Regiment? LOL, no, BD was solidly the second best group that year. No doubt about it.

Exactly. You can always feel that a show or performance doesn't feel like Xth place, but it's all relative.

[actucker]

That all of the top 7 beat each other at some point that year is evidence against slotting, not for.

I was at finals that year. True, the Cadevaliers were the top 3, but they were clearly a cut above 4-7 on finals night (and IMO they clearly finished in the correct order 1-2-3). As for 4-7, it's a shame that it's so easy to remember placement and so hard to remember scores.IIRC there was something like 0.6 separating 4th from 7th (and IMO the four really were that close). It was a four-corps pile-up that someone had to be on the bottom of. Tough break, but I don't think you can claim that Bloo was clearly better than Regiment that night (or vice versa).

Did a little research. 7-4 that night were all stuffed between a 94.050 and a 94.850. 8 tenths for 4 corps is quite a cluster. I had forgotten about that dog fight.

[Jeff Ream]

lol...no. I didn't mean to suggest that they were better than Blue Devils.

Someone had mentioned that 2002 was an awful year for drum corps, but Boston's show was pretty good.

In fact, 2002 was the first year I ever went to see a live competition. It was in Indy at the old RCA dome for the late-July regional.

In fact, Spirit's "TIME" show was really good, too.

I'm just going to have to reminisce for a minute. Being my first time ever going to a live show, having only seen PBS broadcasts since 1999, when Spirit came onto the field, I thought I had seen some really cool groups up until then. But then I got my first taste of Wall of Brass served to me on a silver platter, from Spirit, and I haven't been able to get enough since. Been an avid DCI fan ever since.

What's funny is that the only show themes I can remember from that year 2002 is Spirit, Boston and then Cavaliers, who can forget Frameworks? Everyone else was kinda forgettable. I don't even remember what Blue Devils did, I'd have to look it up. I think Crossmen started our their show in a giant X. I remember that. And wait - Madison did Red Gold and Green, or something like that. Phantom did some kind of Russian show. But Boston, Spirit and Cavs stuck out the most.

I also went to the same competition the next year, in 2003, and I remember Blue Devils "Phenomenon of Cool". That was a memorable show. Spin Cycle was incredible as well. Same with Phantom Regiment, doing Harmonic Journey. Incredible program. Carolina Crown "Bellissimo" I remember as well. I even remember thinking to myself that this corps was on their way up and was going places soon. It was the next year, when they did Bohemia, that I was disappointed, because I really didn't like that program all that much at all.

Everyone else, I kinda forgot what they did.

TIME wasn't 2002 for Spirit. 2002 Spirit was the Easter Symphony show

[BRASSO]

I was simply going through the exercise. I buy what you're saying though.

The counter of your first sentence is that everyone beat everyone at some point in the year, yet the Cadevaliers ended up 1, 2, 3 in the end. Just the way slotting would have had them.

There have been other years like that year, but where the Cadevaliers did not end up 1, 2, 3, in the end. I dunno, I was just going through the exercise trying to find situations where the question could be true, and those were the years that popped out at me. I'm wondering what other people thought who believe in the slotting idea.

...and to be fair, I'm on the fence about slotting. Seems like sometimes it happens, and sometimes not, BUT that's just MY PERSONAL feeling.

Slotting is not something that is a conspiracy... and there isn't anything nefariious, nor preplanned about it all. Its just that he environment is such that except for once every decade or so, if we use history as our guide, there is the inevitability about things.

After last season's outlier, it looks like the Cadevaliers will once again assume their position at the top. Both Cadets and BD are undefeated and even though its still June, it appears that Crown won't be able to knock off BOTH of the Cadevaliers duo of the trifecta.

Its pretty easy to predict most things... usually the crowd's favorite most years does not win the title ( Bluecoats this year ).... SCV will not beat BD....Pioneer will finish last... and out of the 25 or so World Class Division Corps ,no more than one or 2 Corps ( at most ) will not move up,or down more than 3 placement positions from last season. Thousands of marchers come in and out of these 25 Corps each season, but placements are pretty constant for the most part... Last week, even though I have not seeen any of the west Coast Corps, before the show I accurately predicted all 9 placement positions in the competition. But I'm not unusual in this., Many of the DCP'ers here could have probably nailed all 9 placement positions as well, imo.. So is there " slotting " ? I suppose it depends on the definition. If by " slotting " one means its all fixed, then no I don't subscribe to that at all. But some things are easily predictable within a placement or two, and thats because the environment over the years has been unintentionally created to make an inevteability about things reach a point where we all can pretty much accurately predict within a couple of placement positions where most corps are going to place each and every year.

Edited June 29, 2014 by BRASSO