Dekalb TOC

[quietcity]

When Abe was in high school, he didn't fit in..

He should have joined the band!

[2000Cadet]

That is what I said. That is what N.E. Brigand said, er, typed.

Last year some people complained about Crown using narration, meaning particularly the love story section.

Other people defended Crown with the argument that they were only being faithful to their source material, Philip Glass's Einstein on the Beach.

There was a major flaw with that response. It also applies to such defenses of Cadets' show.

That is what I said.

The only difference with what those presidents said and what YOU are saying now, is that what you are saying is an opinion. Just because you think it's a major flaw doesn't make it fact, same thing we went through with Crown's show last year.

[2000Cadet]

But this is just the point. The concept of the Cadet's show is easy to grasp. What I object to is the way that the show spoon-feeds the concept to the audience. It is as though the designers do not quite believe we will "get it" unless they spell everything out explicitly. I think this approach demonstrates a certain lack of regard for the audience's intelligence.

And this is part of a trend. Ever since the Cadets incorporated narration, they have tended to be overly literal and heavy-handed in the use of it, at the expense of the backing music. "This I believe" is still the worst offender, but this year's musical show is also harmed by the ever-intrusive jumble of spoken and recorded voices.

Or maybe some people are taking things just a little too personally when all it is supposed to be is a drum corps show. I've never been a fan of narration ever since it was allowed, but making something out of nothing just to try to enhance your point or make a show worse than what it is will not help your cause against narration.

[corpsband]

Well, I was replying to George Dixon with your comment in mind as well, so I am happy to have you reply.

I saw the Cadets live last night for the first time, and my experience was this: I had to continuously shift my attention from downstage /foreground (narrator and platform) to upstage / background (the corps proper). I found this constant need to shift my attention a bit irritating. Several times, I found my enjoyment of a beautiful or majestic Copland phrase interrupted by that darned narrator popping up like a jack-in-the-box, yanking away my attention from the music, and doing so to TELL me that I am listening to something beautiful or majestic. It was all rather maddening.

Now, this is not a reflection on the quality of the narrator or the narrative. Both are excellent, given the venue and limitations of the genre. And I realize every drum corps show requires a lot of attention shifting. And finally, I acknowledge the specific ideas of the show could not be effectively conveyed without spoken word.

But the Cadets have elevated the need to constantly shift attention to a whole new level, and they do so only to tell me what is already made patently obvious by Aaron Copland's masterly music.

I've seen them a number of times and I find myself watching past the stage the entire show -- I don't look at the stage much (and I completely ignore the pit :-\ ) . Could be due to the multiple viewiings. But I can certainly understand your experience.

I've only seen Crown once and I really wanted to see them about 5 more times right after that viewing. I *know* there were things happening that I missed. I consciously tried to take it alll in at once (because they made only one stop in the area on their first east coast swing). Long wait 'til DCI East :-(

[2000Cadet]

I've seen them a number of times and I find myself watching past the stage the entire show -- I don't look at the stage much (and I completely ignore the pit :-\ ) . Could be due to the multiple viewiings. But I can certainly understand your experience.

I've only seen Crown once and I really wanted to see them about 5 more times right after that viewing. I *know* there were things happening that I missed. I consciously tried to take it alll in at once (because they made only one stop in the area on their first east coast swing). Long wait 'til DCI East :-(

It would be nice if the stage wasn't there, but it's there. It's understandable that people are quibbling about the stage being in the front sideline. Personally, I wish the stage was somewhere on the left or the right of the field. I've seen the show twice live and both times I was relatively low on the field. I really didn't find the stage that much of a problem. But there was another corps who have used "stages" in their show. I wonder how much anger there was when they did it.

[corpsband]

It would be nice if the stage wasn't there, but it's there. It's understandable that people are quibbling about the stage being in the front sideline. Personally, I wish the stage was somewhere on the left or the right of the field. I've seen the show twice live and both times I was relatively low on the field. I really didn't find the stage that much of a problem. But there was another corps who have used "stages" in their show. I wonder how much anger there was when they did it.

Cadets fans have been just a little touchy this season as well (IMHO at least). Most of them complained about the stage AND the narration pre-season very loudly. After the season started they all forget about their complaints and started complaining about everyone else complaining :-)

But hey that's life on DCP. Cadets are having an epic season. Of course it be will more epic when Crown finally catches them and then runs down those would be movie stars :-)

Edited July 14, 2014 by corpsband

[quietcity]

Or maybe some people are taking things just a little too personally when all it is supposed to be is a drum corps show. I've never been a fan of narration ever since it was allowed, but making something out of nothing just to try to enhance your point or make a show worse than what it is will not help your cause against narration.

Of course I take all this personally. Drum corps has been a huge part of my life for the last 30-some years. So I think it is worthwhile to give the activity a lot of deep thought and consideration, and yes, to have a personal reaction to it. This is especially true when considering the titans of drum corps, such as the Cadets.

I am not sure what you mean by your statement that "all it is supposed to be is a drum corps show." Why sell the activity short? There is a tremendous amount of art and learning and entertainment and friendship going on in our little world.

What you are saying is akin to saying, "Soccer is just a game." Sure, but every four years, the World Cup rivets the attention of over half the planet. (and I somehow managed to watch most of Germany vs. Argentina with just enough time to get to the Dekalb show afterwards!)

Edited July 14, 2014 by quietcity

[N.E. Brigand]

The only difference with what those presidents said and what YOU are saying now, is that what you are saying is an opinion. Just because you think it's a major flaw doesn't make it fact, same thing we went through with Crown's show last year.

No, here I think the facts are on my side and that I'm not just expressing an opinion:

Crown's 2013 show was wonderful, and deserved to win. That's my opinion.

But its wonderfulness was not due to its being faithful to Einstein on the Beach--because it wasn't. In particular, the narration that bothered a fair number of people was intoned over a different piece of music entirely. That's a fact.

And yet Crown's defenders last season, especially early in the year, were arguing that one reason Crown's show was wonderful was that it was faithful to the original. They were justifying their opinion with a factual claim that was incorrect.

That is the entirety of my argument (and I said this last year), which I am now reapplying to claims that Cadets' show in its use of quotation by Roosevelt and Kennedy is faithful to the original. Cadets may have a wonderful show, but its wonderfulness does not derive from hewing closely to Copland's original piece.

[2000Cadet]

Of course I take all this personally. Drum corps has been a huge part of my life for the last 30-some years. So I think it is worthwhile to give the activity a lot of deep thought and consideration, and yes, to have a personal reaction to it. This is especially true when considering the titans of drum corps, such as the Cadets.

I am not sure what you mean by your statement that "all it is supposed to be is a drum corps show." Why sell the activity short? There is a tremendous amount of art and learning and entertainment and friendship going on in our little world.

What you are saying is akin to saying, "Soccer is just a game." Sure, but every four years, the World Cup rivets the attention of over half the planet. (and I somehow managed to watch most of Germany vs. Argentina with just enough time to get to the Dekalb show afterwards!)

I'm not a fan of soccer and have never been a fan of it. Personally I think it's boring. I think football is much more exciting.

I'm not selling the activity short. But realistically, two months of the year for an activity that only appeals to a small percentage of people doesn't really make it something worth getting all bent out of shape. Especially for design choices that may turn some people off or engage others. It's kinda like looking at abstract art. Some people may see a world of wonder, and some people like me may only see a bunch of scribbled lines that look like a 5 year old created.

[2000Cadet]

No, here I think the facts are on my side and that I'm not just expressing an opinion:

Crown's 2013 show was wonderful, and deserved to win. That's my opinion.

But its wonderfulness was not due to its being faithful to Einstein on the Beach--because it wasn't. In particular, the narration that bothered a fair number of people was intoned over a different piece of music entirely. That's a fact.

And yet Crown's defenders last season, especially early in the year, were arguing that one reason Crown's show was wonderful was that it was faithful to the original. They were justifying their opinion with a factual claim that was incorrect.

That is the entirety of my argument (and I said this last year), which I am now reapplying to claims that Cadets' show in its use of quotation by Roosevelt and Kennedy is faithful to the original. Cadets may have a wonderful show, but its wonderfulness does not derive from hewing closely to Copland's original piece.

But it still had narration in it, regardless.