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Creativity at the Top


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With all due respect BKs Avian show was cool and maybe didn't get the GE/Design scoring it could've but the Cadets show was superior! Granted BK had the best drill in the lower half of the top 12 but they didn't execute like a top 3 corps musically or marching. That also drives down GE and overall Vis/Mus. Cadets sell their technique at top 3 level and this the design which also was a top tier show was given credit for achievement

Edited by wesleyrp
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With all due respect BKs Avian show was cool and maybe didn't get the GE/Design scoring it could've but the Cadets show was superior! Granted BK had the best drill in the lower half of the top 12 but they didn't execute like a top 3 corps musically or marching. That also drives down GE and overall Vis/Mus. Cadets sell their technique at top 3 level and this the design which also was a top tier show was given credit for achievement

right but the critical point above directly refutes brasso's misguided theory. Avian was more than capable of scoring a lot higher but the design was held back by the performer. brasso's claim is that no amount of better performance would have improved the placement of that show. i say give that show to BD's performers and they could win with it (although maybe not in 2011 -- sacktig's drill was mind bogglingly good). credit for design is very much tied to the performer -- no amount of great design will save a corps who can't perform (and vice versa).

Edited by corpsband
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I will say this Corpsband, I do believe that if something is written tougher and dirty for a top tier group it gets the benefit of the doubt throughout the season. That same accommodation doesn't happen for lower seeded groups. Why? Well judges know the Cadets or SCV or whoever usually execute at a very high level. But as I stated earlier- they do get it right in the end.

Edited by wesleyrp
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By the way I still can't load my Meme, thanks for trying to help

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I will say this Corpsband, I do believe that if something is written tougher and dirty for a top tier group it gets the benefit of the doubt throughout the season. That same accommodation doesn't happen for lower seeded groups. Why? Well judges know the Cadets or SCV or whoever usually execute at a very high level. But as I stated earlier- they do get it right in the end.

agree. judges do give the benefit of the doubt to top tier corps. but it runs outs. look at Crown 2010 -- clearly got the benefit early season when they were just smoking everyone. but eventually that ran out; they got nailed for things they just couldnt get clean. and that was a design issue not a performer issue. they created enviromental challenges no amount of performer excellence could overcome.

judges are supposed judge what's in front of them. but they're human and can't shut out their past experience. scoring will always be subjective. we just accept that fact.

Edited by corpsband
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I will say this Corpsband, I do believe that if something is written tougher and dirty for a top tier group it gets the benefit of the doubt throughout the season. That same accommodation doesn't happen for lower seeded groups. Why? Well judges know the Cadets or SCV or whoever usually execute at a very high level. But as I stated earlier- they do get it right in the end.

well that kinda makes sense. The lower corps most often will not execute as well as a top corps other wise the lower corps wouldnt be a lower corps.hmmmmmm. not that it isnt possible......yeah it's unlikely

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It seems that it's rather fruitless to compare "Design vs. Execution" BITD to "Design vs. Execution" as it applies to the present day, simply because we're judging the BITD components based on our contemporary standard(s). Of course BITD "design" had less apparent weight -- because such design standards as we know them now didn't exist then. And when a component hasn't yet been created, it ceases to have any application at that time.

Corps design their shows to the sheets... sheets they themselves had major input on. Corps BITD had shows that were designed to maximize their points under THOSE sheets, and similarly BD ( and the others ) design their shows for todays sheets. What is different today however is that a Corps Show Design has much more weight than the performance and execution captions once did. For example, a Corps today can finish 6th in the performance execution caption of Percussion.... which is primarily marcher performance and execution driven... and still win a DCI Title today. . But a Corps can not finish 6th today in a predominantly Show Design caption ( for example, such as Visual Ana. ) and win a DCI Title today under the current sheets. If anyone thinks its possible to finish 6th in a predominently Show Design caption today under the current sheets and still win a DCI Title today, they are probably just kidding themselves ,imo ( not referring here to you, HornTeacher on this )

Edited by BRASSO
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This is where I whole heartily agree Brasso. Today's emphasis has changed and thus the show construction has changed to maximize the points that it can receive. Now that says I differ about the execution driving the construction as well. If Avian was executed for instance at a top 3 level it would've increased (under the new sheets) the Design side of GE, and Analysis Captions. If its dirty, you'll get less credit from both a design and execution stand point. Granted I do think what u say about execution makes logical a d perfect sense

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Corps design their shows to the sheets... sheets they themselves had major input on. Corps BITD had shows that were designed to maximize their points under THOSE sheets, and similarly BD ( and the others ) design their shows for todays sheets. What is different today howeveris that a Corps Show Design has much more weight than the performance and execution captions once did. For example, a Corps can finish 6th in the performance execution caption of Percussion.... which is primarily marcher performance and execution driven... and still win a DCI Title today. . But a Corps can not finish 6th today in a predominantly Show Design caption ( for example, such as Visual Ana. ) and win a DCI Title. If people think its possible to finish 6th in a predominently Show Design caption and still win a DCI Title today, they are probably just kidding themselves,imo ( not referring here to you, HornTeacher on this )

you need both to be at the top.....im not sure why any of this matters though. great design done bad doesnt work...great execution bad show , also doesnt work

Edited by GUARDLING
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This is where I whole heartily agree Brasso. Today's emphasis has changed and thus the show construction has changed to maximize the points that it can receive. Now that says I differ about the execution driving the construction as well. If Avian was executed for instance at a top 3 level it would've increased (under the new sheets) the Design side of GE, and Analysis Captions. If its dirty, you'll get less credit from both a design and execution stand point. Granted I do think what u say about execution makes logical a d perfect sense

the problem is often these theories are all about IF's....we designed shows based on sheets BITD and do the same....so the sheets have changed....the point is?

Edited by GUARDLING
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