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Judging Question


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Without ever having judged before, here's a question that I have been wondering about for a long time.

When judging, do judges factor in (either officially or unofficially) what a particular corps scored the night or two before? In other words, does a judge say to themselves before a show starts, "I know BD scored an 88.3 last night, so they NEED to be at least an 88.3 or higher on my sheet tonight". I know a single judge doesn't deal with the overall score for a corps, but you get the idea.

Or, does a corps get a complete blank slate from every judge on a given night? Mathematically, it always seemed too coincidental to me that each corps (for the most part) gets an incrementally higher score each and every show of the Summer. I also get the fact that a corps improves daily, and that is a big part as to why the scores increase every show. However, you would think from a pure math/statistics standpoint there would be more variation from show to show than there is if every corps started with a blank slate every night. Also, throw in that not the same judges judge every show, and you would think there would be even more possibility for variation, no?

Edited by Quad Aces
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Check the scoring history of ANY corps and you will find that they do, from time to time, have their score go DOWN.

It has happened to some of the corps at the top of the standings already this year.

Right (and thanks for the reply). I'm not saying that scores never go down, but it seems from a math standpoint there should be MORE variation than there is. You would think that you would see maybe a "fill in the blank" corps go from a 78.4 one night to a 72.3 another night, to an 83.2 another night, etc. the overall trend would logically be upward, since every corps cleans almost every day - but perhaps the path to that final score of the season would have bigger swings?

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Without ever having judged before, here's a question that I have been wondering about for a long time.

When judging, do judges factor in (either officially or unofficially) what a particular corps scored the night or two before?

They are all aware of what the DCI previous days, weeks scores have been before they arrive at their assignment for that show. The G7 Corps group proposal not only wanted DCI to factor in previous nites scores, they wanted in their proposal for DCI and its judging community to factor in years worth of scores and placements as a precursor to the establishment of a permanent DCI World Class Division Slotting System. If adopted as proposed, the G7 wanted to even hand pick their own judges from within the current DCI community of judges. The proposal did not pass, but it does illustrate that some Corps certainly and undeniably believed that previous scores and placements should be factored into current and future judged competitions that were to take place.

Edited by BRASSO
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can a judge look and see what someone got? Sure, that's why recaps are available on any laptop, smartphone or portable wireless device.

Should a judge let that determine that night's score?

No.

Judge the show of the day, using the criteria on the back of the sheet. First job is to rank, then rate.

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can a judge look and see what someone got? Sure, that's why recaps are available on any laptop, smartphone or portable wireless device.

Should a judge let that determine that night's score?

No.

Judge the show of the day, using the criteria on the back of the sheet. First job is to rank, then rate.

the answer :withstupid:

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can a judge look and see what someone got? Sure, that's why recaps are available on any laptop, smartphone or portable wireless device.

Should a judge let that determine that night's score?

No.

Judge the show of the day, using the criteria on the back of the sheet. First job is to rank, then rate.

That's the answer. I know of some judges who REFUSE to look at previous show's scores, as they don't want their read to be "tainted" or biased based on previous numbers, but it's definitely not out-of-line for judges to look at previous numbers in order to see what's going on in the world: especially if a judge is adjudicating for the first time and maybe will look at numbers to see where numbers are for this point in the season.

But yeah, once performances start previous scores are typically "thrown out" and a judge will start with criteria on sheets + appropriate box descriptors = that group's sub-caption scores for the show.

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Without ever having judged before, here's a question that I have been wondering about for a long time.

When judging, do judges factor in (either officially or unofficially) what a particular corps scored the night or two before? In other words, does a judge say to themselves before a show starts, "I know BD scored an 88.3 last night, so they NEED to be at least an 88.3 or higher on my sheet tonight". I know a single judge doesn't deal with the overall score for a corps, but you get the idea.

Or, does a corps get a complete blank slate from every judge on a given night? Mathematically, it always seemed too coincidental to me that each corps (for the most part) gets an incrementally higher score each and every show of the Summer. I also get the fact that a corps improves daily, and that is a big part as to why the scores increase every show. However, you would think from a pure math/statistics standpoint there would be more variation from show to show than there is if every corps started with a blank slate every night. Also, throw in that not the same judges judge every show, and you would think there would be even more possibility for variation, no?

This is interesting, but you have to remember that to an extent judging = chaos theory in the sense that literally anything can happen. Last night's incredible drum line could completely lay a turd and have ticks aplenty (ZING) tonight. A corps struggling last Saturday might've spend a few days implementing changes that make the show "work" better on Wednesday and improve significantly.

You're right in the sense that at the DCI WC level corps do improve daily, and in that regard ALL corps generally improve incrementally. In that regard, it sometimes makes things difficult for corps to overcome large spreads night-to-night, and sometimes every corps gets a little bit better and there is no perceivable movement from show-to-show as far as caption spreads can go.

Sometimes it's just a matter than most DCI WC corps are good enough that they get to a point fairly early in a season when they're consistent from a performance stand-point, thus making it less probably that placements or spreads would very wildly night-to-night.

There's always that possibility, of course, and it does happen at times that things can change based on a judge's different read of a show, or corps performance (for example, if there is a flue bug going around and a corps' show is not as solid as most performances).

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Without ever having judged before, here's a question that I have been wondering about for a long time.

When judging, do judges factor in (either officially or unofficially) what a particular corps scored the night or two before? In other words, does a judge say to themselves before a show starts, "I know BD scored an 88.3 last night, so they NEED to be at least an 88.3 or higher on my sheet tonight". I know a single judge doesn't deal with the overall score for a corps, but you get the idea.

Or, does a corps get a complete blank slate from every judge on a given night? Mathematically, it always seemed too coincidental to me that each corps (for the most part) gets an incrementally higher score each and every show of the Summer. I also get the fact that a corps improves daily, and that is a big part as to why the scores increase every show. However, you would think from a pure math/statistics standpoint there would be more variation from show to show than there is if every corps started with a blank slate every night. Also, throw in that not the same judges judge every show, and you would think there would be even more possibility for variation, no?

Based on what the sheets have to say on the matter, a corps would have to have a pretty drastic change to fluctuate the amount you suggest. The sheets are split into boxes that say very specific things. If that corps fits into the vocabulary for a specific box, then there's a range of numbers that are available based on that criteria. Even if, say, the percussion was stellar one night, and horrible the next, you're probably talking about the difference of a box worth of numbers (say 20 points in each subcategory). That would translate to a 4 point swing in the total subcategory (add sub captions, multiply by .1 to get the score out of 20 points). That only nets you 2 points in the total score once its run through the overall scoring rubric.

Keep in mind that we're talking about the difference between a 17 and a 13 in the percussion score. That's a massive difference.

The sheets are designed that way so that one judge doesn't have the power to completely tank a corps on their own without it being pretty obvious. While there will be fluctuations in how a group or section will perform on a given night, the kind of volatility you're talking about would be almost impossible when you're dealing with ensembles that have spent the last month and a half rehearsing 12 hours a day.

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