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When your hopes and dreams fizzle out


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Prior to that short run, the Cavaliers were on par with SCV, and since... they are barely on par with SCV.

Are you ####### smoking crack? A decade is a short run? It's taken me a bit to try and figure out what you really mean, because what you've written is nonsense. It is true that SCV did very well during the beginning of DCI, where they placed out of the top 3 only once in 1980 ( 7th) place until their 6th place finish in 1990. SCV had their problems in the early 90s ( from 1990 - 1996), but started pushing for a championship again in '97, finally reaching that milestone in '99. They fell back to 4th for several years only to plateau at 3rd in 2003. Then they fell back to 8th in 2005 and have been hovering in the middle of finals until last year, where they got 4th ( which is their highest placing since 2004).

SCV has 7 DCI titles with the most recent 1st place coming in 1999 when they tied the Blue Devils. Their most recent 2nd place finish was in 1998. Their most recent 3rd place finish was in 2004.

The Cavaliers have one of the highest average placements in DCI AND the old VFW/AL days. SCV hasn't been around as long and can really compare with that. The Cavaliers have 7 DCI championships with 2006 being the most recent. Their most recent second place was in 2010, and most recent 3rd place was in 2011. They've also won 6 National Championships prior to that. The Cavaliers have won 13 National Championships, Only the Cadets (21 championships) and Blue Devils (15) can compare in number of national championships. Basically, it's:

The Cadets

Blue Devils

The Cavaliers

Santa Clara Vanguard

The Blue Devils and the Cavaliers have the closest number of championships between the group.

Basically what you're telling us is that the last two years ( 2012 and 2013) from the Cavaliers erase what came before AND minimize their last decade of success? Wow!

Let's see what they have done:

2011 - 3rd

2010 - 2nd

2009 - 4th

2008 - 3rd

2007 - 3rd

2006 - 1st

2005 - 2nd

2004 - 1st

2003 - 2nd

2002 - 1st

2001 - 1st

00 - 1st

99 - 3rd

98 - 4th

97 - 7th

96 - 4th

95 - 1st

94 - 4th

93 - 5th

92 - 1st

91 - 2nd

90 - 2nd

89 - 3rd

88 - 5th

87 - 3rd

86 - 3rd

85- 3rd

84 - 8th

Then let's go back to BEFORE DCI.

70 - 3rd

69 - 2nd

68 - 2nd

67 - 1st

66 - 2nd

65 - 2nd

64 - 3rd

63 - 1st

62 - 1st

61 - 1st

60 - 2nd

59 - 1st

58 - 2nd

57 - 1st

56 - 3rd

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I don't include SCV in the math calculation" from 1976 to today", as I would not only not arrive at " 95% soonen, we would notg even reach the " 80% or more" threshold. Thats why I didn't opt to use your " fuzzy math ". I used my own math calculations to coin my phrase, " The Cadevaliers ", and the percentages of wins since 1976. Your demand now for me to substitute SCV for the Cavaliers, would not arrive at all in the " over 80% " calculation, thus we could not state this as a fact.

I didn't ask for a substitution... I am pointing out your arbitrary starting date of 1976 (when the Devils first one). I am pointing out that SCV had 2 wins in the dates prior to that back to 1972 (when DCI championships started). I am pointing out that SCV continues to be a relevant contender (and typically always has). I am pointing out that if you dump your arbitrary start date and include SCV, then you are at a higher percentage which is 90%.

It seems to me that your limitations of 1976 in counting, and your disregard for SCV (who has won quite a few championships) seems to stem from a fixation on or affinity for 2000-2006.

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I just prefer to say what it is: Blue Devils. If you want a medal, 90% of the time it works every time.

This is the true accurate claim.

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You are adding a name that currently has no championship relevance (hasn't for a few years) to your concoction to increase the percentage of wins. Why not add SCV to your name and get to 95% sooner?

Your statements have an arbitrary basis (starting in 1976 and including 3 drumcorps). You set an exclusive premise in order to validate an arbitrary point.

In that line of thinking... 90% of DCI titles have been won since the beginning (not the arbitrary start date of 1976, when the devils fist won... to support your arbitrary point) by the Cadevalierguard.

Fuzzy math = fuzzy points.

You brought up a time frame that was FALSE.

You know... there is no Cadevaliers. There really is only the Cadevils... or the Bluedets. Or, if you push one more tier there is only the Blue Devils. The Cavaliers had a relatively short period of consistent success (not quite a decade). I'm not sure that they are the great constant powerhouse that you portray them to be. Prior to that short run, the Cavaliers were on par with SCV, and since... they are barely on par with SCV.

None the less... you are correct that history... as in the case of Star... and... Star... and also Star...

Never mind.

Why not just use the past two years? Why not just use last year and calle em Browndets? ...and I'd certainly argue that any year in the top 12 is success.

I then wrote the following that shows why you're incorrect.

Are you ####### smoking crack? A decade is a short run? It's taken me a bit to try and figure out what you really mean, because what you've written is nonsense. It is true that SCV did very well during the beginning of DCI, where they placed out of the top 3 only once in 1980 ( 7th) place until their 6th place finish in 1990. SCV had their problems in the early 90s ( from 1990 - 1996), but started pushing for a championship again in '97, finally reaching that milestone in '99. They fell back to 4th for several years only to plateau at 3rd in 2003. Then they fell back to 8th in 2005 and have been hovering in the middle of finals until last year, where they got 4th ( which is their highest placing since 2004).

SCV has 7 DCI titles with the most recent 1st place coming in 1999 when they tied the Blue Devils. Their most recent 2nd place finish was in 1998. Their most recent 3rd place finish was in 2004.

The Cavaliers have one of the highest average placements in DCI AND the old VFW/AL days. SCV hasn't been around as long and can really compare with that. The Cavaliers have 7 DCI championships with 2006 being the most recent. Their most recent second place was in 2010, and most recent 3rd place was in 2011. They've also won 6 National Championships prior to that. The Cavaliers have won 13 National Championships, Only the Cadets (21 championships) and Blue Devils (15) can compare in number of national championships. Basically, it's:

The Cadets

Blue Devils

The Cavaliers

Santa Clara Vanguard

The Blue Devils and the Cavaliers have the closest number of championships between the group.

Basically what you're telling us is that the last two years ( 2012 and 2013) from the Cavaliers erase what came before AND minimize their last decade of success? Wow!

Let's see what they have done:

2011 - 3rd

2010 - 2nd

2009 - 4th

2008 - 3rd

2007 - 3rd

2006 - 1st

2005 - 2nd

2004 - 1st

2003 - 2nd

2002 - 1st

2001 - 1st

00 - 1st

99 - 3rd

98 - 4th

97 - 7th

96 - 4th

95 - 1st

94 - 4th

93 - 5th

92 - 1st

91 - 2nd

90 - 2nd

89 - 3rd

88 - 5th

87 - 3rd

86 - 3rd

85- 3rd

84 - 8th

Then let's go back to BEFORE DCI.

70 - 3rd

69 - 2nd

68 - 2nd

67 - 1st

66 - 2nd

65 - 2nd

64 - 3rd

63 - 1st

62 - 1st

61 - 1st

60 - 2nd

59 - 1st

58 - 2nd

57 - 1st

56 - 3rd

Edited by jjeffeory
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Are you ####### smoking crack? A decade is a short run? It's taken me a bit to try and figure out what you really mean, because what you've written is nonsense. It is true that SCV did very well during the beginning of DCI, where they placed out of the top 3 only once in 1980 ( 7th) place until their 6th place finish in 1990. SCV had their problems in the early 90s ( from 1990 - 1996), but started pushing for a championship again in '97, finally reaching that milestone in '99. They fell back to 4th for several years only to plateau at 3rd in 2003. Then they fell back to 8th in 2005 and have been hovering in the middle of finals until last year, where they got 4th ( which is their highest placing since 2004).

SCV has 7 DCI titles with the most recent 1st place coming in 1999 when they tied the Blue Devils. Their most recent 2nd place finish was in 1998. Their most recent 3rd place finish was in 2004.

The Cavaliers have one of the highest average placements in DCI AND the old VFW/AL days. SCV hasn't been around as long and can really compare with that. The Cavaliers have 7 DCI championships with 2006 being the most recent. Their most recent second place was in 2010, and most recent 3rd place was in 2011. They've also won 6 National Championships prior to that. The Cavaliers have won 13 National Championships, Only the Cadets (21 championships) and Blue Devils (15) can compare in number of national championships. Basically, it's:

The Cadets

Blue Devils

The Cavaliers

Santa Clara Vanguard

The Blue Devils and the Cavaliers have the closest number of championships between the group.

Basically what you're telling us is that the last two years ( 2012 and 2013) from the Cavaliers erase what came before AND minimize their last decade of success? Wow!

Let's see what they have done:

2011 - 3rd

2010 - 2nd

2009 - 4th

2008 - 3rd

2007 - 3rd

2006 - 1st

2005 - 2nd

2004 - 1st

2003 - 2nd

2002 - 1st

2001 - 1st

00 - 1st

99 - 3rd

98 - 4th

97 - 7th

96 - 4th

95 - 1st

94 - 4th

93 - 5th

92 - 1st

91 - 2nd

90 - 2nd

89 - 3rd

88 - 5th

87 - 3rd

86 - 3rd

85- 3rd

84 - 8th

Then let's go back to BEFORE DCI.

70 - 3rd

69 - 2nd

68 - 2nd

67 - 1st

66 - 2nd

65 - 2nd

64 - 3rd

63 - 1st

62 - 1st

61 - 1st

60 - 2nd

59 - 1st

58 - 2nd

57 - 1st

56 - 3rd

Basically what I have said is nothing like what you assert that I said.

To your credit, your analysis is comprehensive and more worthy. BRASSO is making an arbitrary claim from an arbitrary start date with arbitrary exclusion.

The Cavaliers are great... they have always been great... they continue to be great. To suggest otherwise is not a point that I remotely suggested to make.

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Were I playing in this hornline, even in 5th place, I'd say my hopes and dreams would be feeling pretty fulfilled.

Yep. That.

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Thread successfully derailed. Thanks, Brasso.

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You brought up a time frame that was FALSE.

Why not just use the past two years? Why not just use last year and calle em Browndets?

I then wrote the following that shows why you're incorrect.

DCI was formed in 1972. I brought up the only time frame that is TRUE when discussing DCI titles.

I haven't limited my scope to the last 2 years... I am honestly (as you are not) widening the scope to 1972 and adding a big player (SCV).

The truth is that making such relevant claims about dominance really need to be limited to the discussion of 1 corps over the whole time frame. Adding more corps and shortening the time frame requires arbitration.

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Basically what I have said is nothing like what you assert that I said.

To your credit, your analysis is comprehensive and more worthy. BRASSO is making an arbitrary claim from an arbitrary start date with arbitrary exclusion.

The Cavaliers are great... they have always been great... they continue to be great. To suggest otherwise is not a point that I remotely suggested to make.

It's those darned internets again. I didn't quite get what your assertion was, but it read as if you didn't think the Cavaliers were worthy of being in the Cadevaliers moniker, especially to SCV. This was because they were on par with SCV ( possibly this year) and historically, they aren't. SCV is wonderful, and both organizations have had some down years in their history, but historically speaking, Cavaliers are third and SCV are fourth.

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DCI was formed in 1972. I brought up the only time frame that is TRUE when discussing DCI titles.

I haven't limited my scope to the last 2 years... I am honestly (as you are not) widening the scope to 1972 and adding a big player (SCV).

The truth is that making such relevant claims about dominance really need to be limited to the discussion of 1 corps over the whole time frame. Adding more corps and shortening the time frame requires arbitration.

You ignored a bunch of what I wrote.

I looked at the complete historical work of those two corps, not simply a "relatively short period of consistent success (not quite a decade)."

Plus I believe that we would need to define success. Both corps have been top twelve corps, but SCV does win that battle by one year if we go back to the beginning of DCI. Basically, SCV wins the placement war 70-80s, but the Cavaliers win 90s. 00s. 10s.

SCV wins the last two years.

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