When your hopes and dreams fizzle out

[BRASSO]

I didn't ask for a substitution... I am pointing out your arbitrary starting date of 1976 (when the Devils first one). I am pointing out that SCV had 2 wins in the dates prior to that back to 1972 (when DCI championships started). I am pointing out that SCV continues to be a relevant contender (and typically always has). I am pointing out that if you dump your arbitrary start date and include SCV, then you are at a higher percentage which is 90%.

Its my math calculations ( accurate ), my dates selected ( from 1976 ), and the 3 Corps I arbitrarily selected( Cadets, BD, Cavs ) for my trifecta of 3 Corps for my coining of the phrase " The Cadevaliers ". If you want to start from 1972,( or even sooner ) and select any other 3 Corps ( or 4 ) in combination to arrive at " over 80% of the Titles won ", then be my guest. But these were mine. And you are entitled to your own. Also, I utilized the Cadevaliers to make long term placement predictions, and I just don't see SCV in the future mix, as they 've only won 1 DCI title in the last 25 years, whereas the Cavs have won 7.

Edited July 24, 2014 by BRASSO

[cfirwin3]

It's those darned internets again. I didn't quite get what your assertion was, but it read as if you didn't think the Cavaliers were worthy of being in the Cadevaliers moniker, especially to SCV. This was because they were on par with SCV ( possibly this year) and historically, they aren't. SCV is wonderful, and both organizations have had some down years in their history, but historically speaking, Cavaliers are third and SCV are fourth.

Now you are getting where I am coming from. I am pointing out that SCV is excluded (not over the cavaliers) but due to a funky arbitrary starting time of 1976 that BRASSO came up with.

I posit that the discussion of DCI championships should include every year starting at 1972 (not 76) and should either include BD, Cadets, Cavies AND SCV... OR just the Blue Devils alone. (perhaps maybe just BD and Cadets... but again this is arbitration isn't it?)

I never knocked the Cavies. I just said that they haven't been championship relevant for that last couple of years... and they have done that from time to time like others have (like SCV).

[cfirwin3]

You ignored a bunch of what I wrote.

I looked at the complete historical work of those two corps, not simply a "relatively short period of consistent success (not quite a decade)."

Plus I believe that we would need to define success. Both corps have been top twelve corps, but SCV does win that battle by one year if we go back to the beginning of DCI. Basically, SCV wins the placement war 70-80s, but the Cavaliers win 90s. 00s. 10s.

SCV wins the last two years.

I didn't ignore what you wrote. The things that you wrote went way beyond the scope of the discussion. What BRASSO wrote is beneath the scope of the discussion.

The discussion is about DCI championships. DCI started in 1972. And my comment about "short period of consistent success" is in the context of DCI championships and the theme of the thread which alludes to WINS. In DCI competition the Cavies have won 7 times. 5 of them (being "consistent"... wouldn't you say?) were from 2000-2006 (which is not quite a decade... as I said).

[ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar]

It really depends on the corps and how their staff/administration reacts to it.

If a show concept isn't working during June, some elite corps are capable of re-writing large amounts of drill/music without paying for it down the road. 2002 BD comes to mind.

Most corps aren't that fortunate though. If a show is fundamentally not working, frustrations tend to boil over across sections and staff members. I went into my age-out year with sky-high expectations (successful previous year, huge membership retention, huge audition camp turnout), but there were problems from the beginning.

My corps had a terrible winter camp program at the time, so we were already behind other groups by the time move-ins started. The designers/arrangers wrote themselves into a corner, and the scores suffered immediately. The caption heads/techs that worked with the weakest-performing sections reacted in the worst way possible by assuming that the problems were completely achievement-based and not at all with the content. Once the staff realized they had a turd on their hands, there were ham-fisted midseason rewrites and drill changes that never got clean. And then there were transportation issues to top it all off.

Needless to say, the last several weeks were ugly. There was very little cohesion among corps members (tons of inter-section blame game ... "You guys are the reason we're not beating Corps X") and everyone was pretty checked out by finals week. As soon as I put my gear away on the truck, I raced to the nearest liquor store and bought a case of the cheapest beer I could find to erase my last week of drum corps from my memory.

TL/DR, but it's a crummy feeling to be working your ### off for something you know won't get clean, especially when you're a vet and have to play the role of cheerleader to get people to focus through out rehearsal.

I don't regret my age-out year for a second, though. There were lots of great people on staff who were great at their jobs, and I learned more from that season than any other.

Edited July 24, 2014 by ShutUpAndPlayYerGuitar

[cfirwin3]

Its my math calculations ( accurate ), my dates selected ( from 1976 ), and the 3 Corps I arbitrarily selected( Cadets, BD, Cavs ) for my trifecta of 3 Corps for my coining of the phrase " The Cadevaliers ". If you want to start from 1972,( or even sooner ) and select any other 3 Corps ( or 4 ) in combination to arrive at " over 80% of the Titles won ", then be my guest. But these were mine. And you are entitled to your own. Also, I utilized the Cadevaliers to make long term placement predictions, and I just don't see SCV in the future mix, as they 've only won 1 DCI title in the last 25 years, whereas the Cavs have won 7.

Exactly.

Although SCV has won 2 in the last 25 completed seasons.

[Cappybara]

What is this thread about again...

[BRASSO]

Thread successfully derailed. Thanks, Brasso.

It wasn't my intent. I initially replied above with comments that are germaine, but was taken in anorther direction by a poster, and so naturally I was required to correct his misinformation regarding the Cavs, and my timeline, etc.

I think possible to get back now to how a few of the marchers in more than half the G7 Corps are now feeling, now that it is becoming increasingly clear that their Corps chances of winning a title here in 2014 is rapidly coming to and end ( which is what you asked us about to comment on ).

[BRASSO]

Now you are getting where I am coming from. I am pointing out that SCV is excluded (not over the cavaliers) but due to a funky arbitrary starting time of 1976 that BRASSO came up with.

I posit that the discussion of DCI championships should include every year starting at 1972 (not 76) and should either include BD, Cadets, Cavies AND SCV... OR just the Blue Devils alone. (perhaps maybe just BD and Cadets... but again this is arbitration isn't it?)

Heck, I've even encouraged you above to select your own timeline, and include any combos of Corps you want, and use THAT for your current and future percentage placement predictions. In the interim, why assail mine, ?.... when you havn't produced your own, to arrive at a " over 80% DCI Titles won since 1976 ( or even " since 1972" ). Do your own calculations, and coin your own name for 3 Corps, if you want. I don't care. But don't get mad with mine, if my math is unimpeachably accurate for the timeline I decided to select. I am are afterall utilizing an uninterrupted over 35 year period. Should we go back to the 50's and 60's where the Cavs won lots of titles in those 2 decades and SCV barely even existed ? I didn't do THAT in my ( your words ) " arbitrary timeline selected", either.

Edited July 24, 2014 by BRASSO

[cfirwin3]

It wasn't my intent. I initially replied above with comments that are germaine, but was taken in anorther direction by a poster, and so naturally I was required to correct his misinformation regarding the Cavs, and my timeline, etc.

I think possible to get back now to how a few of the marchers in more than half the G7 Corps are now feeling, now that it is becoming increasingly clear that their Corps chances of winning a title here in 2014 is rapidly coming to and end ( which is what you asked us about to comment on ).

Well, I think we got it pretty well resolved. Not quite the way that you recall... but resolved none the less.

To, again, reply to the intent of the thread...

I would imagine that corps that have won (while they find disappointment in not winning again) find less disappointment in not winning than those who work to come close but don't win (like Phantom back in the day... Crown up until last year... Bluecoats, at the moment).

And even with that said... It isn't demoralizing to most (like many say it was to the Star organization... true or not).

The Cadets and Blue Devils lose gracefully all the time.

[ShortAndFast]

I don't think the members are as obsessed with scores as some on DCP. Like every corps, Crown's competition is ultimately with themselves - at how high a level can they perform their show? If they achieve that top performance, and the guys in green shirts think it was 5th-best, well, that happens. There's always subjectivity in music adjudication and even when you perform at your best, the outcome still depends on (a) what the other groups do, and (b) what the judges prefer.

Crown will be fine. They've built some great programs and they'll have no trouble attracting kids to those programs. And their design team will get another shot next year. It's not like Cadets folded up shop after 2006, Phantom after 2009 or BD after 2005 - even the best designers sometimes make mistakes.