Roughin' It at Rutgers

[jjeffeory]

Yes, they do, but just a little. They also account for a lot of other things. Some of those are things Bluecaots do well, but at this point not as well as Cadets or BD. Just because a show is fan friendly doesn't mean it will score well in GE. The word EFFECT can describe any kind of emotion, musical phrase, visual impact, or thematic aspect of a corps' show. Not just the effects that some find fun and exciting. Dark emotions are effects, too. Negative emotions and/or esoteric design can all lead to emotions. I think the judges are getting it right according to the sheets.

Now, I don't always buy the sheets and would love to see change in that regard.

Ok, HERE's the link to the 2012 sheets everybody, I don't see that audience engagenent matters "just a little" ANYWHERE on the sheets. I do see very GENERAL and subjective terms.

http://issuu.com/drumcorpsinternational/docs/2012_judging_sheets_full_set?e=1376842/2992110

I see things like:

"To what extent does the realization of repertoire, and conceptual vision, engage the audience through compelling impact, contour, shape, pace, development, etc. over time? (GE1 - Visual & GE2- Music )

"How effectively do the performers engage the audience through their excellence, communication skills, and emotional commitment?" (GE1 - Visual & GE2- Music )

Also, while looking at the sheets, specifically the Visual Proficiency sheets I saw something that really supports some things that I've been saying about the judging and how some corps are getting higher rewards than others because of their design and style:

VP (Achievement)

"Do members consistently demonstrate training and strong technique, whether as an individual demonstration or as part of collective demonstration in a small group"

So, you're encouraged to focus on the individual or small group and not "big" group moments, which some corps designs excel at and other corps designs do not.

I see a lot of corps trying to change their designs to match what best fits in the rubric, just like college students do in their classes.

I wish I could find the latest sheets to see what language has been changed, but I'm sure it's going to be as general and open to interpretation as this one was.

Edited August 1, 2014 by jjeffeory

[GUARDLING]

Ok, HERE's the link to the 2012 sheets everybody, I don't see that audience engagenent matters "just a little" ANYWHERE on the sheets. I do see very GENERAL and subjective terms.

http://issuu.com/drumcorpsinternational/docs/2012_judging_sheets_full_set?e=1376842/2992110

I see things like:

"To what extent does the realization of repertoire, and conceptual vision, engage the audience through compelling impact, contour, shape, pace, development, etc. over time? (GE1 - Visual & GE2- Music )

"How effectively do the performers engage the audience through their excellence, communication skills, and emotional commitment?" (GE1 - Visual & GE2- Music )

Also, while looking at the sheets, specifically the Visual Proficiency sheets I saw something that really supports some things that I've been saying about the judging and how some corps are getting higher rewards than others because of their design and style:

VP (Achievement)

"Do members consistently demonstrate training and strong technique, whether as an individual demonstration or as part of collective demonstration in a small group"

So, you're encouraged to focus on the individual or small group and not "big" group moments, which some corps designs excel at and other corps designs do not.

I see a lot of corps trying to change their designs to match what best fixes the rubric, just like college students do in their classes.

I wish I could find the latest sheets to see what language has been changed, but I'm sure it's going to be as general and open to interpretation as this one was.

I said when the new sheets came out that nothing would really change, that it was pretty much what judges were already doing and that out comes would be no different. The only difference is is that there is written support now that supports it....I think kinda what you also are saying.

Edited August 1, 2014 by GUARDLING

[cowtown]

Please feel free to point out exactly where on the sheets it says how to meter these "emotions" and how to meter these "impacts." It can't be cleanliness of their execution, because there are captions for achievement already. You mention the sheets a lot as if you have read them. Care to enlighten us who have not on what the judges should be looking for, and specifically to put a number to it? This should clear up a LOT of confusion on DCP if you could.

DCI GE Sheets 2014

Movie Camera props +1

Newly legalized Brass instrument +3

Thunderous Goo +2

Tarps + .5

Ramps +.25

Narrator +.5

Ladders +1

Salacious Guard Dance with tambourines +2

Wired electronic effect +.25

Past Champion +.25 x ( number of DCI Championships)

Moving Boxes -.5

Hamster wheel -2 (still Mr Mason)

Pillows .5

Uniform Change +1 (if sponsored by a Uniformed company, -1 is bought at discount, +5 if paid full price for 2 full sets to a DCI Corporate sponsored)

[jjeffeory]

Guys - I want to add this

I've been following/participating/admin/volunteer/donor/fan of drum corps since 1975

So there's some context when I say the following

I have NEVER disagreed with the judging of an event to the extent I did last night's judging

Absolutely mind-numbing...

The reason we are seeing such wild swings night to night in GE and the corps captions isn't because these kids are that inconsistent (they aren't!) it is because the "Judges" have literally no idea the defined expectations of what they should be recognizing and/or rewarding.

It is clear they are no longer on the same page with each other - let alone the audience

This off season they need to do a much better job of defining the captions to each judge - how we want them assessed. It's pretty clear right now some are using a "WGI approach" or a "Theatrical approach" or a "BOA approach" or frankly their own approach. We have to get the judges looking for the same thing - and make it a "drum corps approach" - because I'm sorry but WGI guard work is NOT that effective on a 100 yard football field... and neither is WGI drill

There's literally a million different approaches going on right now...

OMG YES! This sums up my thoughts very well, and if people read my previous post(s), you see that I believe a certain design approach is and has been winning over others for a while, and since George has written this great post, it looks like the design approaches I've been talking about winning all the time would be more effective in WGI and the smaller scale. This is all VERY interesting to me and helps explain some things for me.

...and if all else fails, go with the historic winner, which it seems like the judges have done with GE this year. I'm not saying that it's not deserved; just saying when unsure, take the safer route.

[skevinp]

DCI GE Sheets 2014

Movie Camera props +1

Newly legalized Brass instrument +3

Thunderous Goo +2

Tarps + .5

Ramps +.25

Narrator +.5

Ladders +1

Salacious Guard Dance with tambourines +2

Wired electronic effect +.25

Past Champion +.25 x ( number of DCI Championships)

Moving Boxes -.5

Hamster wheel -2 (still Mr Mason)

Pillows .5

Uniform Change +1 (if sponsored by a Uniformed company, -1 is bought at discount, +5 if paid full price for 2 full sets to a DCI Corporate sponsored)

Although I don't especially agree with the sentiment, this is ### hilarious!

[jjeffeory]

DCI GE Sheets 2014

Movie Camera props +1

Newly legalized Brass instrument +3

Thunderous Goo +2

Tarps + .5

Ramps +.25

Narrator +.5

Ladders +1

Salacious Guard Dance with tambourines +2

Wired electronic effect +.25

Past Champion +.25 x ( number of DCI Championships)

Moving Boxes -.5

Hamster wheel -2 (still Mr Mason)

Pillows .5

Uniform Change +1 (if sponsored by a Uniformed company, -1 is bought at discount, +5 if paid full price for 2 full sets to a DCI Corporate sponsored)

I have some questions about the sheet.

Is that +0.5 PER tarp?

What about chairs? I've got a LOT of leftover chairs... Also, I have tables. If I use them as ramps too, do I get extra points, or can I get points for ramps AND tables?

What if I move my pit around and have people stand on them while other people play on them?

Edited August 1, 2014 by jjeffeory

[Precious Roy]

DCI GE Sheets 2014

Movie Camera props +1

Newly legalized Brass instrument +3

Thunderous Goo +2

Tarps + .5

Ramps +.25

Narrator +.5

Ladders +1

Salacious Guard Dance with tambourines +2

Wired electronic effect +.25

Past Champion +.25 x ( number of DCI Championships)

Moving Boxes -.5

Hamster wheel -2 (still Mr Mason)

Pillows .5

Uniform Change +1 (if sponsored by a Uniformed company, -1 is bought at discount, +5 if paid full price for 2 full sets to a DCI Corporate sponsored)

Horn player doing "bug squish" +.25

Horn player doing "double bug squish" +.275

Horn player doing "reverse double bug squish" (also known as "gotta pee") -.275

[ShortAndFast]

Horn player doing "bug squish" +.25

Horn player doing "double bug squish" +.275

Horn player doing "reverse double bug squish" (also known as "gotta pee") -.275

Hey, there's a lot of demand in the bug squish, and it's super-effective.

I dream of the day when visual judges will no longer require that every brass and drum feature be decorated with ridiculous-looking body moves.

[George Dixon]

Hey, there's a lot of demand in the bug squish, and it's super-effective.

I dream of the day when visual judges will no longer require that every brass and drum feature be decorated with ridiculous-looking body moves.

I particularly admire the "squat down to take a dump" move... +1.0

[chaddyt]

Guys - I want to add this

I've been following/participating/admin/volunteer/donor/fan of drum corps since 1975

So there's some context when I say the following

I have NEVER disagreed with the judging of an event to the extent I did last night's judging

Absolutely mind-numbing...

The reason we are seeing such wild swings night to night in GE and the corps captions isn't because these kids are that inconsistent (they aren't!) it is because the "Judges" have literally no idea the defined expectations of what they should be recognizing and/or rewarding.

It is clear they are no longer on the same page with each other - let alone the audience

This off season they need to do a much better job of defining the captions to each judge - how we want them assessed. It's pretty clear right now some are using a "WGI approach" or a "Theatrical approach" or a "BOA approach" or frankly their own approach. We have to get the judges looking for the same thing - and make it a "drum corps approach" - because I'm sorry but WGI guard work is NOT that effective on a 100 yard football field... and neither is WGI drill

There's literally a million different approaches going on right now...

So what do you think happened to the judging community, most of which are veterans in judging within DCI, to all of a sudden have forgotten how to do their job??