Blue Devils B Placement Friday Night?

[fsubone]

The weird thing about it seems to be that during most of the season when they competed head to head, Academy, PC, and Mandarins were scoring ahead of BDB and SCVC by good margins, then that evaporated when BDB and SCVC went on Open Class tour. It would seem like competing against World Class corps all season slowed down the rate of score improvement for those corps, while the "weaker" field of Open Class allowed for BDB and SCVC's scores to rocket up.

BDB's score improvement- 29.625 points.

SCVC's score improvement- 26.55 points

Academy's score improvement- 18.075

PC's score improvement- 19.45

OC's score improvement- 14.1

Mandarin's score improvement- 20.25

So we see a much larger score improvement, especially on a show-by-show basis for the Open Class corps. A theory I've heard bounced around is also that DCI wouldn't have wanted there first Open Class champion on WC sheets to be the 70s for Finals. Would look kind of strange on the trophy. Probably just a conspiracy theory

[Jeff Ream]

Judges are telling World Class corps in the 14th-18th range very directly (not just with their scores, but with their comments) to write less challenging shows. I don't think that's what we really want, but it's what we're going to get.

no. they are telling them to perform better. you don't get points just for trying something hard.

[brassboy62]

I’m a big fan of the Oregon Crusaders this year. I was hoping to see them overtake Spirt of Atlanta, like they did a few nights before. I thought they got a bit screwed in prelims in GE by one judge and thought that they would redeem themselves in semis. When I saw the Blue Devils B semifinals performance, I didn’t think they would come out ahead of them. I don’t agree with Vanguard Cadets and Academy, but BDB smoked their show in semis. I loved the Crusaders show, regardless of the placing. They should be proud of themselfs. It was their best show ever. I do think that all drum corps classes should have the same judging rating. Its the same activity and they should be judged the same. I also think that if a world class corps does not make semifinals, two year consecutively, their status should be changed to open class. It has got to be somewhat frustrating to be in last place at every show. At least in open class they would have some corps to compete with.

[PurpleKnights]

no. they are telling them to perform better. you don't get points just for trying something hard.

They are literally telling them, directly and explicitly, "write an easier show." I know plenty of staff members. It's not a 'wink-wink' situation. The message is being made clear.

[DrumManTx]

I got some coffee this morning, and sat down to really dig into the recaps and watch all the semifinalists from the Mandarins in 21st to the Blue Devils B in 15th. First of all, THAT level of performance from those placements? AMAZING! No wonder scores were high across the board. Of course I wasn't there, and saw 4 of these 7 groups earlier in the season.

First of all, this was CLOSE, these 7 corps were all crammed into a 4.175 spread.

Overall impressions before looking at the recaps and another viewing with the numbers in mind.

Blue Devils B were fantastic, a VERY well constructed show that plays to their strengths and weaknesses, and is very accessible. They perform the visual package very well, it has some great moments, but I found the staging to be very cluttered at a few points and the design lacked some clarity. Wasn't a huge fan of the color palette, I get the Noir theme, but that's the only aspect I felt was really lacking. Overall though, a VERY nice surprise. No real weaknesses.

The Academy, again, a very well designed show that the corps achieved at a very high level and was very accessible. I found the visual design more appealing than Blue Devils B and had more clarity, but a few more little errors here and there in the visual department. A fantastic guard that contributed very well to the program, and each section of the corps was strong, none seemed weaker than the other. I felt they and Blue Devils B were very close.

Spirit of Atlanta, first of all, I wish them the absolute best. I know what they're going through is probably VERY rough. Compared to their performance on Thursday, this one seemed off in comparison. More visual issues than those around them I felt, lots of bouncing, anticipation, hitting sets at different times, ect. The visual ensemble seemed very off. They performed very well, percussion seemed to be the strong point. Brass seemed to run out of gas at points and had some entrance issues at points in the super exposed stuff. The big thing was the show, in comparison to all the corps I mention, the theme is the least apparent and the show seems the least developed. The music and visual just didn't seem to develop and flow very well, choppy.

Vanguard Cadets show was AMAZING! Theme presented very well. Brass was great and percussion very solid. Color Guard's performance and visual presence was great. That said, lots of visual issues in comparison, they looked dirtier across the board than everyone else I mention.

Oregon Crusaders had my favorite show out of this grouping, and I think the most challenging. That said, the visual program while great in composition, had some issues, namely color guard which was weakest in this grouping, except maybe for the Mandarins. I think their percussion was the best out of this grouping, their brass right up there with BDB. As far as GE, I think the show was very well constructed and sold VERY well, especially visually. Their theme came across very well.

I do NOT think Pacific Crest should have been this low. They sound fantastic and have a very solid guard. Their show theme was simple and they presented it as well as they could have. Some visual issues if I had to find some faults here, but nothing glaring.

Mandarins brass and percussion were great, and the guard was pretty good. The show did seem disjointed in the middle, it went from diamonds and steel to the human spirit without an effective transition. Great visual design, with some performance issues.

After viewing recaps and another viewing:

Blue Devils B - General Effect I can agree with, their show was designed very well for them to max out, and it sells very well. Visual and music, I don't know. The way their visual program was designed, I couldn't tell if they were performing their drill at a high level or not because of how tight it was and the guard was integrated, seemed cluttered. Was surprised to see them 15th in visual and not music. I might have had brass up another placement and percussion as well, but I felt things on the musical side were stronger than the visual side.

The Academy - GE seemed right, a very nice show and they averaged around 15th and ended up 16th right behind Blue Devils B. Color Guard seemed a bit low to me in 20th, I thought they were very solid and sold the theme VERY well. Music seemed right. I think this is the most accurate one of the pack in my eyes.

Spirit of Atlanta - This seemed DEAD on to me. Out of 11 judges they outperformed their book from ALL 4 GE Judges, 1 Visual Judge, and 1 Music Judge. They were as low as 20th and 21st in some subcaptions. If their performance levels wouldn't have been as high as they were they could have been lower. The show didn't work, and the judges laid it out there in black and white. Visual seemed right, I thought they had a rough run as an ensemble and were 21st in Analysis. Music seemed right, they sounded great even though the show was what it was. Unfortunately Spirit, this is where the show belonged when there's so many shows around you that work so much better. The performers were WAY better than the show that was given them. I'm not one to say staff changes are needed, especially after they cleaned house this year. I have the utmost respect and hope in JD Koester, maybe it was just a really rough transition year, it happens. But the numbers speak, it is there in the recaps in black and white, they deserved a stronger show.

Vanguard Cadets - This is where things started to get strange to me on the first viewing......but upon looking at the recap, maybe they got it right? Musically, a fantastically constructed show, and visually, but with some visual performance issues. Across GE they got a little more credit for the show than performance. Visually, Analysis is the only caption I really can't see, 16th? I could see composition scores that high, but performance I don't know. Color Guard was fantastic, I can see their 14th. Music captions seemed about right.

Oregon Crusaders - This one and PC are the ones that confused me after the first viewing and not looking at the recaps. 19th in GE below Spirit and Vanguard Cadets? Hmm. Not sure I understand that. The show seemed a lot stronger than Spirit and stronger the Vanguard Cadets to me, maybe not as well performed as Spirit, but I think stronger than Vangaurd Cadets in that aspect. Color Guard, this is what did it. And I agree, they're not awful, but in comparison to those around them, they're weaker. Before you get to visual, they have a 1.05 spread over Vanguard Cadets. Then you add in the fact that in guard they were .6 behind Pacific Crest, .8 behind Spartans, 1.0 behind The Academy, 1.1 behind the Mandarins, 1.2 behind Jersey Surf, 1.3 behind Spirit, 1.5 behind Blue Devils B, and 1.8 behind Vanguard Cadets, that's what did it. COMPLETELY. Music was right on in my eyes. But that guard score is what did it, and after another viewing, not hard to see why not. I loved this show, but in the end, that placement isn't as crazy as I thought. I would have had them over Vanguard Cadets and closer to The Academy, but other than that, seems about right.

Pacific Crest - GE score seems odd, 20th? Hmm. Visual scores are interesting, but there are some problems. Music, after another viewing actually seemed about right.

Mandarins - Seemed right on.

In conclusion, the scores didn't seem as crazy as I thought. In a grouping that is this close, you need to be solid across the board to be successful, hence Blue Devils B placement. All it takes, in the case of Oregon Crusaders Color Guard, is one weak section to make you drop, and in the case of Santa Clara Vanguard Cadets Color Guard, to make you go up. I would have had it:

15th - Blue Devils B, 82.55 because they were solid across the board, no weaknesses, and in a tight grouping that comes out on top.

16th - The Academy, 82.35 because they were also solid across the board.

17th - Spirit of Atlanta, 81.95 ONLY because of their performance levels.

18th - Oregon Crusaders, 81.75 ONLY because of their guard. Otherwise, I would have had them 15th.

19th - Vanguard Cadets, 80.55 because of their guard and quality of show.

20th - Pacific Crest, 80.25......not sure why. This was a strong group.

21st - Mandarins , 78.95.

Edited August 11, 2014 by DrumManTx

[Kamarag]

In conclusion, the scores didn't seem as crazy as I thought. In a grouping that is this close, you need to be solid across the board to be successful, hence Blue Devils B placement. All it takes, in the case of Oregon Crusaders Color Guard, is one weak section to make you drop, and in the case of Santa Clara Vanguard Cadets Color Guard, to make you go up. I would have had it:

That's some pretty darned good analysis, DMT. Nice work.

[Jeff Ream]

agree.

and as for being told to write easier shows...I know some staffers too. I think you're not getting the whole story. Write hard shows fine...but then achieve them. they didn't. So you don't get love in comp or rep if you don't achieve.it's not rocket science

[The Dude]

Once again, I have read these forums for years and this year I am posting.

BDB put together a finished product that was well done. If someone attempts a product that isn't cleaned and to hard.....the sheets speak for themselves sorry. OC needs to hold their heads high and be proud. EX. 02 Magic. When Capital Regiment lost what was Division 2, I was there and they said, "Magic was far and away better." Nobody really expected a finals finish from them but they were highly complimented. Vanguard Cadets have knocked off several Division 1 groups out of Semis several years with a great product I wish to see them repeat. My question is why are we up in arms because Devils have dominated this last few years in both classes. Is it instruction? I see outright selling the show they have. The members should be proud of themselves in OC, Academy as they have appeared in an activity that is unforgiving to new groups and both have made extraordinary strides.

Stop getting down when a BD organization wins. They have a performance quality that sells the show and an attitude of pride for the rest of their lives of "Bleed Blue." Get a show you can achieve and sell it. Even BD in 05 had some of the most difficult drill I've ever seen and the members struggled along with you can't say yowzer in your show. (Lose one place for that alone.)

If people are tired of it, hold your head up high and decide you are going to be better than your own corps the year before. Most of it comes from the tradition of the members such as Vanguard Cadets being consistent in their class. They have an identity and tradition. Without identity we're fishing and making hard to sell, sometimes to hard as we all learn as humans in baby steps year to year.

Sorry, but BDB deserved where they placed. Why are there no complaints about so many groups other than BD? The members use this as fuel to prove all wrong. So, in short find an identity, grow your corps, and finally.......

GET BETTER. Energy wasted whining about others that beat you is not energy towards getting better and stepping back and asking why. No the system isn't rigged, if it was all those years BD was cleaner and lost due to GE they may have at least 2 or 3 more rings I can think of. EX. '96 '99, '08. They channeled that energy into becoming a better Blue Devil corps instead of worrying about who else is doing what and where they placed.

Lesson to be learned? I think so.

In short, congrats OC, Academy, Mandarins, and scvc. You guys did great the community is proud of you and look into next year with a little extra fire and see what happens. I know SCVC has this approach. Get those SCV members with the same mindset and they too will rise. I remember crown in 17th......

The Concord organization gets determined to prove they are the top, not whine about others. If people disagree so strongly about them work harder and take a step back and take notes. That's how success is done along with tailoring a show their members are capable of. Did we mention the young age of BDB? They have an attitude where a friend sat next to the members of BDB on a bus after finals and they knew the champion years and almost every show design he quizzed them on.

Just look at what they are doing, adapt it to your style and use all that time to whine about BD winning to improve your own group or find a way to help them improve. Can't change sheets every year it doesn't go your way. That would be politicians. I don't see near the complaints and questioning when someone else wins. Get over it and improve yourselves for next season.

Refer to the other post directly above this one. They are not as direct as me. I solve problems not discuss how I got screwed.

[luv4corps]

. I solve problems not discuss how I got screwed.

I don't see a discussion here of people thinking they got screwed... at all. I think people are simply discussing how/why this happened. You can express that kids were devastated without saying you got screwed. You can also express how you think things should have gone. Still, it doesn't mean you feel you got screwed. Personally, as a high octane OC fan, I can be a sport and admit they got beat. Doesn't mean I agree with the result. But I can agree that judges saw it differently than I did.

[luv4corps]

15th - Blue Devils B, 82.55 because they were solid across the board, no weaknesses, and in a tight grouping that comes out on top.

16th - The Academy, 82.35 because they were also solid across the board.

17th - Spirit of Atlanta, 81.95 ONLY because of their performance levels.

18th - Oregon Crusaders, 81.75 ONLY because of their guard. Otherwise, I would have had them 15th.

19th - Vanguard Cadets, 80.55 because of their guard and quality of show.

20th - Pacific Crest, 80.25......not sure why. This was a strong group.

21st - Mandarins , 78.95.

Drum man from Texas, I really appreciate your comments. All season long.