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Scenario w/3 questions


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Place: 2015 DCi World Class Finals

Qualifier: All subcaptions in which Blue Devils received full value during 2014 Finals Please note: I did NOT say "perfect"...I said "full value." See -- even a dino can sometimes be adaptable. :wow:

Scenario: The 9th, 10th, or 11th Corps to appear (in other words, the current 2nd, 3rd, or 4th place Corps) performs. Upon completion of their show, a judge of the above qualifying captions thinks to him/herself:

"That was at the very least, if not better than, the Blue Devil performance of 2014. I've seen the 1 (or 2, or 3) remaining Corps many times this year, and I am fully convinced that they cannot/will not meet the same level of content and/or achievement."

Questions:

1) In your opinion, what % of current DCI judges would award the Corps full value in that subcaption?

2) Should any of the applicable DCI judges award the Corps full value in that subcaption?

3) On what basis do you form your opinion?

Disclaimer: I am not, in any way, trying to infer that judges do this sort of past-year comparison. I also am not trying to infer that judges SHOULD do this sort of comparison. However, human nature being what it is (and yes, at the end of the day, judges ARE human), such is bound to occur in a judge's mind...if only subconsciously. And given the gravity of this year's circumstances, I think many of us will be making this very comparison in our own minds in the coming years. If we didn't, then DCP would essentially be out of business, wouldn't it? Also, this is NOT any attempt on my part to lessen or demean the Blue Devils' accomplishments this year. For those who might think that, merely check my Corps "favs" in my signature section.

There...I hope that I succeeded in presenting the above scenario in a manner which is fair, unoffensive, or controversial to the general readership. I'm merely seeking a mild discourse on the subject...not a shouting match.

Edited by HornTeacher
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Very few - probably none - would award the perfect score. There's only one case I know in DCI where a perfect mark was given to a corps not performing last - 1987 Garfield percussion. And it generated plenty of controversy.

To your second question, no judge should. 20.0 does not mean you were perfect, it means you were at least 0.3 than the 2nd place corps that received a 19.7.

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Sort of a flawed question as it depends on the other corps that remain, with 9 corps left, I doubt they’d max out the sheets, doesn’t mean that corps would not win the caption and if so, it’d push down other the other corps in that caption

Radical swings mean short lived judging careers

I don’t feel that the Blue Devils follow the sheets as much as they define the sheets

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Very few - probably none - would award the perfect score. There's only one case I know in DCI where a perfect mark was given to a corps not performing last - 1987 Garfield percussion. And it generated plenty of controversy.

To your second question, no judge should. 20.0 does not mean you were perfect, it means you were at least 0.3 than the 2nd place corps that received a 19.7.

Thank you, Short. However, please note that I never used the term "perfect" in my scenario. I always stated it as "full value." My reasons for this are obvious, given the incredibly large amount of debate that has taken place over the past week involving the word "perfect."

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Sort of a flawed question as it depends on the other corps that remain, with 9 corps left, I doubt they’d max out the sheets, doesn’t mean that corps would not win the caption and if so, it’d push down other the other corps in that caption

Radical swings mean short lived judging careers

I don’t feel that the Blue Devils follow the sheets as much as they define the sheets

There would only be, at most, 3 Corps remaining. That was cited in my scenario.

Edited by HornTeacher
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Thank you, Short. However, please note that I never used the term "perfect" in my scenario. I always stated it as "full value." My reasons for this are obvious, given the incredibly large amount of debate that has taken place over the past week involving the word "perfect."

All 20.0 means is that you were 0.3 better than the group that got a 19.7. It doesn't mean you're the best the judge has ever seen. It doesn't mean you're better than the 2014 Blue Devils. Since it's a measure relative to the other groups performing, it's irresponsible to give it out with a bunch of groups still to go.

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All 20.0 means is that you were 0.3 better than the group that got a 19.7. It doesn't mean you're the best the judge has ever seen. It doesn't mean you're better than the 2014 Blue Devils. Since it's a measure relative to the other groups performing, it's irresponsible to give it out with a bunch of groups still to go.

Very fair. Thank you. :smile:

Ooops...forgot my follow up question: Then am I to assume that the very first Corps which enters on the field on Finals night has a ceiling of 18.9 (no matter how accomplished they are), in order to allow room for the 11 remaining Corps? Not fighting you...just asking.

Edited by HornTeacher
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Sorry, sloppy reading on my part

If a corps had been winning a performance caption all year and rocked their run, yes, they’d get the nod. If a few of the remaining corps were battling in a caption all year, no, the judge would leave room, just in case

Can’t imagine a tie on a maxed out score, it’d be way too controversial

Scores don’t occur in a vacuum, they are dependent upon the other corps at a show which, is why people shouldn’t get hung up on them too much

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Sorry, sloppy reading on my part

If a corps had been winning a performance caption all year and rocked their run, yes, they’d get the nod. If a few of the remaining corps were battling in a caption all year, no, the judge would leave room, just in case

Can’t imagine a tie on a maxed out score, it’d be way too controversial

Scores don’t occur in a vacuum, they are dependent upon the other corps at a show which, is why people shouldn’t get hung up on them too much

We're cool, Cow. And Short, if you're still reading. No problems.

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Very fair. Thank you. :smile:

Ooops...forgot my follow up question: Then am I to assume that the very first Corps which enters on the field on Finals night has a ceiling of 18.9 (no matter how accomplished they are), in order to allow room for the 11 remaining Corps? Not fighting you...just asking.

An intriguing scenario, one that highlights what might be a fundamental problem with the current scoring paradigms. Back in the 80s, you had corps in the lower part of the top 12 winning percussion titles (I'm thinking specifically of Bridgemen and 27th Lancers). That sort of thing seems to be virtually impossible under the current scoring--if you are in 12 place, no matter how good you play on finals, they may not be able to fully award you because they have to leave room for the remaining corps.

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