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One more regular season show to go ,let the predictions rip


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Cabs 93.55

Bucs 93.20

Fusion 91.80

C2 90.35

Gold 84.00

WS 82.90

I don't see Reading topping the Cabs this weekend. In fact, I see the spread opening a little. The Visual Effect score from Scranton was WAY out of wack from what it has been like all season. I don't give that number a whole lot of credit, especially when Readings color guard was scored as low as it was. For that Vis Effect number to stand you'd have to think they were flawless but thats far from what I saw. Readings visual book isn't close to even Fusion or Hawthorne. They run for the sake of running, but not for any intent other than two big moves. They added in two different choreography visuals from the last time I saw them in Wayne... both of which are the same, so it' doesn't bring much variety. And they didn't make a clean form the whole night in Scranton. When I saw this number on the recap i was in complete shock. There were plenty of moments in the show where you were looking around for something interesting and there was nothing there. With Fusion and especially Hawthorne, you are constantly entertained at just about every moment. I know effect isn't about "entertainment" but content and variety should certainly be a factor.

seems to me the reports out of reading were correct as the score showed. so...................

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Predictions are opinions, opinions are like ###h*les. We all have one.

And some people are one. Are you really saying this to me because I shared an opinion about what I think will happen at the Bucs home show? On a discussion forum thread that is about predicting what will happen. I think I made it clear that I am biased, when I said, "Being an alum, I'm biased..."

BTW, did you come up with that gem yourself?

:cool:

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:dry:

I was in the stands in Scranton. Didn't experience your take on the show. I can understand the fear as Reading continues to get better. It was a great show by several corps. Love the Cabs intro! Fusion's guard!

It's not fear. If they are the better corps than they are the better corps. Thats the name of the game. I've been widely entertained by Reading for years and have some of their souvies at home. It's not a fear thing.

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Ok, well I did not see it this way at all, so let me pose this question:

1. Is standing still or low-velocity more valuable than clean or not-so-clean forms?

2. Is doing the same 3 step dance several times also not effective for you?

If you compare it to Downingtown or previous shows, it is much cleaner, so there is a marked improvement of what they are doing, and it seems that they are starting to get credit for it.

You are incorrect about your statement regarding "entertainment". It is very tied to entertainment, but your flavor of entertainment is different than most of the other fans at the show. Reading got a solid standing O at the end, even about 5 seconds before they stopped playing. Was that not effective or entertaining? I thought it was for sure.

I guess Reading should be glad that you are not a visual judge.

Well, IMO-

1) I do not believe that Cabs stand still any more than Reading. In fact, I think they are about the same. The difference is, when Reading is moving, they are MOVING. It's worked well for them in the past so why not keep doing it? The difference this year, is that they are a younger group with less experience to tap into. I think that shows up when your looking at Body Carriage, dirty feet, and dirty forms. Thats what I saw from Reading in Scranton. Many of the forms they were in when standing still were much dirtier than when Cabs stood still. I had heard that it may have been due to the high school hashes on the field and the lack of College hashes, but Reading put down their own hashes before the performance so I dont buy that. So it becomes a question of demand vs execution and what should they truly be getting credit for. If their show design requires them to run a lot, but in doing so their feet phase badly and people had their horns swaying left to right when moving... then I don't see why they should get credit there.

2) By my count, Reading had three engaging audience moments from the brass line. One is a spin move that they do where individually the performers rotate 360 degrees on the move within a few counts. The second was when some of the hornline "broke on through" to the front area ahead of the pit. The final moment comes at the end of their show. Conversely, Cabs had 9 different moments where their upper body and lower body were bringing different levels of demand to their playing. Starting from the opening set, then their first hit dancing, their second hit dancing, and so on and so forth. The only two that were the similar where the first and second hit in their 1st piece. Every other time was different considerably. So from a variety and demand standpoint, I can see the credit there.

As far as me not being their visual judge. Sure, we all have our own opinions. I do not know what criteria the judges use so I don't know specifically what they are looking for. But based on what I saw at the show, one team runs a lot with a few moments of audience engaging choreography. The other show has more content and has more to watch at every minute that isn't just drill for the sake of drill. In the end, having their Guard score in 3rd and 7/10ths below Cabs, I question how they could be 5/10ths better than them in Visual Effect. Unless the two aren't at all linked... i dont know. I would think the Guard should play some part in that number.

As for the standing O. I saw people stand up sure. The same amount of people that stood up at the end of Fusion, Cabs, C2. I didn't see one team with a better audience reaction than the other really. I will give Bucs the credit of having their hornline 5 feet back from the sideline to end the show. It is very engaging and I'm sure is a good part of the audience reaction at the very end.

It will certainly be interesting to see what happens this Saturday. I'm sure Reading will be tough to beat at home.

Edited by androidx2
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Well, IMO-

1) I do not believe that Cabs stand still any more than Reading. In fact, I think they are about the same. The difference is, when Reading is moving, they are MOVING. It's worked well for them in the past so why not keep doing it? The difference this year, is that they are a younger group with less experience to tap into. I think that shows up when your looking at Body Carriage, dirty feet, and dirty forms. Thats what I saw from Reading in Scranton. Many of the forms they were in when standing still were much dirtier than when Cabs stood still. I had heard that it may have been due to the high school hashes on the field and the lack of College hashes, but Reading put down their own hashes before the performance so I dont buy that. So it becomes a question of demand vs execution and what should they truly be getting credit for. If their show design requires them to run a lot, but in doing so their feet phase badly and people had their horns swaying left to right when moving... then I don't see why they should get credit there.

2) By my count, Reading had three engaging audience moments from the brass line. One is a spin move that they do where individually the performers rotate 360 degrees on the move within a few counts. The second was when some of the hornline "broke on through" to the front area ahead of the pit. The final moment comes at the end of their show. Conversely, Cabs had 9 different moments where their upper body and lower body were bringing different levels of demand to their playing. Starting from the opening set, then their first hit dancing, their second hit dancing, and so on and so forth. The only two that were the similar where the first and second hit in their 1st piece. Every other time was different considerably. So from a variety and demand standpoint, I can see the credit there.

As far as me not being their visual judge. Sure, we all have our own opinions. I do not know what criteria the judges use so I don't know specifically what they are looking for. But based on what I saw at the show, one team runs a lot with a few moments of audience engaging choreography. The other show has more content and has more to watch at every minute that isn't just drill for the sake of drill. In the end, having their Guard score a 3rd and 7/10ths below Cabs, I question how they could be 5/10ths better than them in Visual Effect. Unless the two aren't at all linked... i dont know. I would think the Guard should play some part in that number.

As for the standing O. I saw people stand up sure. The same amount of people that stood up at the end of Fusion, Cabs, C2. I didn't see one team with a better audience reaction than the other really. I will give Bucs the credit of having their hornline 5 feet back from the sideline to end the show. It is very engaging and I'm sure is a good part of the audience reaction at the very end.

It will certainly be interesting to see what happens this Saturday. I'm sure Reading will be tough to beat at home.

reading's biggest problem has been staff changes. it's a different staff now.

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reading's biggest problem has been staff changes. it's a different staff now.

I believe the staff change was essentially at the start of the '12 season, and that resulted in Black Symphony. The staff is outstanding and knows what they are doing, the difference is that this year they have absolutely taken some chances in terms of design, and it's really refreshing. Is it perfect? Absolutely not (at least night the last time I saw it, in Wayne). A lot of it was unreadable in the early season. That will lead folks to question things. Sure, they have younger members...so combined with the major change in style (particularly the Metheny piece and the Doors groove) it's going to take time to get all figured out. And from the results of the Scranton show (I was not there) it appears they are on the right track.

I'll let you know my thoughts after I see them in Reading this weekend.

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"Readings visual book isn't close to even Fusion or Hawthorne. "

I'd strongly disagree. It's very strong construction-wise, the forms flow extremely well in transition from one musical thought to the next, and is logical and very well-crafted. It may be the other main strength the corps has besides their percussion this season.

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"Readings visual book isn't close to even Fusion or Hawthorne. "

I'd strongly disagree. It's very strong construction-wise, the forms flow extremely well in transition from one musical thought to the next, and is logical and very well-crafted. It may be the other main strength the corps has besides their percussion this season.

Hey, BigW!

Finish the dammnn review!

This is a most interesting season. Public opinion probably says "anyone but Reading." That's understandable. There is NO doubt, Caballeros this year are, well . . easy to take. It's a most pleasing show. Wonderful melody, nice movement, great looking, and well played. What's not to like?

Bucs?

YES, I am an alumni. However, this is not one of my favorite programs from Bucs, my 'team.' This year's Bucs have faced unique challenges. This was bound to be a slow-to-get-moving season. But, have they met that challenge? Have they now moved enough? Bucs have CLEARLY grown and 'upped' their game. BUT, in the end . . . . what wins?

Is this all about popularity, innovation, execution, political pull? I really don't know. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

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And some people are one. Are you really saying this to me because I shared an opinion about what I think will happen at the Bucs home show? On a discussion forum thread that is about predicting what will happen. I think I made it clear that I am biased, when I said, "Being an alum, I'm biased..."

BTW, did you come up with that gem yourself?

:cool:

Don't flatter yourself. Just stating a fact, predictions and opinions (although possibly fun and/or entertaining), offer nothing to an actual outcome. Unless one has the "ear" of those that would value a valid opinion and (thus) are actually able to do something constructive with the input.

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