tesmusic

Boerma's Back at Madison!

Recommended Posts

...

When Scott was arranging for Spirit, to me they sounded like Spirit/Madison or something it's similar to how some people have written that they like Michael W. Smith's arranging, but that he never captured the "Madison sound"...

I'm guessing that Michael W. Smith would have taken the corps in an entirely different direction. :)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm guessing that Michael W. Smith would have taken the corps in an entirely different direction. :)

Like 89 opener? Lol

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Their design and performance has generally been around the bottom of Top 12 (or lower, looking before the current administration). Add the fact that seemingly EVERY corps has significantly upped their game as far as design and performance, thus making it incredibly difficult for any corps to move up the competitive ranks (Cavaliers making Top 6 again this year for the first time in awhile, after winning five Championships last decade = a great example of competitive nature of the activity, IMO). That's the most honest, no-frills answer. Many corps have been performing better-designed shows than Madison the last several years.

I'm excited to see what Scott brings (back?) to Madison, and I look forward to hearing his arrangements played by Scouts again!

Thanks, most of that is what I speculated. I can't wait to see what the future holds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exciting news and next year should be interesting. Best of luck to Madison...always one of my favorites!

I've been away from the activity for a while(most of the 2000's) can someone explain what happened to them and why they started hovering around the bottom 12?

In 2000 and 2001 they started feeling the heat from not having a decent colorguard, visual program, or going after the "total package" GE design that Cavaliers led the way with. Scott Stewart's philosophy on the colorguard and overall design unfortunately was holding them back while other corps moved on. Their brass was still ridiculous, but visual and GE were still pretty dirty. Essentially performing an early 90s show in a new decade. They started dropping to the lower part of finals. 10th & 11th place compared to the 6th place 99 show.

In 2002 they dropped out of finals. Getting beat by both Seattle Cascades and Magic of Orlando. Same reasons as before; weak visual and GE. Their drill was exceptionally difficult for a 14th place corps. The rewards for difficulty vs. cleanliness especially hurt them in this season.

In 2003 they hired Sal Salas and Mike Cesario to kind of get a grip on the new design road. It worked briefly. New uniforms and all. Scouts placed 8th in 2003 while still playing G Bugles. The show wasn't much of a total package, but visually it was a huge improvement over 2000-2002. Couple this with a stronger cleaner drumline, and things were looking up. It wasn't the same "IN YOUR FACE" Madison as the past, but at least it got back into finals.

In 2004 they switched to Bb and began toning down their show. No more in your face stuff. Everything was much more... "symphonic" I guess. Even playing Malaga, a lot of fans felt there wasn't much to cheer for aside from the ending. Madison was placing in finals, but fans still seemed to miss the old Madison. On a bright note, their drumline was really starting to show signs of amazing quality. Pete Weber, a new upcoming drill writer, started showing signs of life for the visual program. 8th place overall. (Edit: Technically there were just new gauntlets this year)

2005 was the best year (competitively) for Madison from the decade. The show was a modern adaptation of Carmen and featured a female solo dancer. Pete Weber's drill was on point, the colorguard was the best it's ever been, and IIRC the drumline placed 4th overall. Screaming solos and all. IMO this was still a fairly tame Madison show and still had a lot of design problems, but again, competitively it placed well. 6th place overall. (New Uniform Jackets/Hats/Gauntlets)

2006 was when the problems of Salas' management began to make themselves known. If I remember correctly there was a lot of staff issues this season causing behind the scenes drama, but someone else might want to chime in on this. I think their lead screaming sop went down mid/early season. And to make matters worse, this was a very very symphonic Madison show with incredibly little old feeling to it. Pete Weber was swapped with Myron Rosander, and the Scouts had an unbelievable beast of a visual program that was of course impossible to clean. Drumline was still incredibly talented with Lee Beddis at the helm, but unfortunately there was no room to make up for the design mishaps. Despite having finals at home in Madison, the Scouts placed 9th overall and were unable to improve on last season's success. They also had new uniforms in a modern adaptation of their 1983-84 uniforms that didn't go over well. A new uniform for every season since Salas came in means a lot of expenses...

2007 was a scary year. There was a huge staff departure, and for good reason; Madison was in huge financial trouble due to the managing of the Salas years. But they were still afloat for now. The goal was no longer "make Finals", and unfortunately more along the lines of "make Finals and... OH we need to stay alive". The 4 tunes chosen for the show had very little "Madison" feel to it, and the corps itself seemed depleted from the shortcomings of staff departure. It was clearly trying to match the new direction of DCI design, but unfortunately didn't have the ammo or design chops to compete. People often claim this was the identity crisis at its worst. An old corps trying to be new. The opening of the show was actually pretty amazing, but aside from that this corps seemed like it just needed to keep its head above water. After an incredibly terrifying series of early season placements, the 2007 corps placed 15th overall. (New Uniforms... AGAIN)

2008 was a decent rebound year. The corps was a bit more stable and started showing signs of life. Madison Alums Dr. Nick Williams and Dann Petersen sort of led the helm while a few BD alums kept the drumline above water. This show was fast and nonstop, but the execution stayed high enough to keep it in the hunt for Finals. In the end things worked out and Madison snuck back into Finals with a 12th place finish. (NEW UNIFORMS AGAIN). Fun fact: Madison is the only corps in DCI history to place everywhere during Finals. At some point in their history, they have placed anywhere from 1st to 12th.

2009 was another scary year. Some very poor design choices. The designed a Latin superhero show... without a villain, making things incredibly hokey. The drumline, especially the bassline, was incredibly talented. IIRC the bassline won I&E that year and had an insane lick during the drum feature. Unfortunately the product held them down the entire season, and the Scouts fell to 15th place once again. (NEW UNIFORMS... kinda. I think it was just a new gigantic red sash that didn't work well)

In 2010 Jim Mason was brought on, and from there staff members just kinda came out of the woodwork to provide a huge amount of stability the Scouts were not at all used to. Jim Prime (Garfield, Star, and Blast! arranger), Jon Vanderkolff (Star 93 and Blast!), Thom Hannum, Nick Angelis... things were looking up. In 2010 the Scouts stormed back with an untitled old school show and placed 10th at Finals.

From 2011 to present the Scouts have been putting on great shows, but unfortunately cannot crack the top 8. Mason brought stability, but a lot of the design choices just weren't efficient enough to put Madison over the edge. It seemed like every year they'd get jumped by Boston or Blue Knights at some point and never catch up. 2011 - 10th Place, 2012 - 9th place, 2013 - 9th place, 2014 - 11th place.

So right now Madison has a bit of stability, but are still looking to push past the top 9 into better competitive territory.

Edited by NR_Ohiobando
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In 2000 and 2001 they started feeling the heat from not having a decent colorguard, visual program, or going after the "total package" GE design that Cavaliers led the way with. Scott Stewart's philosophy on the colorguard and overall design unfortunately was holding them back while other corps moved on. Their brass was still ridiculous, but visual and GE were still pretty dirty. Essentially performing an early 90s show in a new decade. They started dropping to the lower part of finals. 10th & 11th place compared to the 6th place 99 show.

In 2002 they dropped out of finals. Getting beat by both Seattle Cascades and Magic of Orlando. Same reasons as before; weak visual and GE. Their drill was exceptionally difficult for a 14th place corps. The rewards for difficulty vs. cleanliness especially hurt them in this season.

In 2003 they hired Sal Salas and Mike Cesario to kind of get a grip on the new design road. It worked briefly. New uniforms and all. Scouts placed 8th in 2003 while still playing G Bugles. The show wasn't much of a total package, but visually it was a huge improvement over 2000-2002. Couple this with a stronger cleaner drumline, and things were looking up. It wasn't the same "IN YOUR FACE" Madison as the past, but at least it got back into finals.

In 2004 they switched to Bb and began toning down their show. No more in your face stuff. Everything was much more... "symphonic" I guess. Even playing Malaga, a lot of fans felt there wasn't much to cheer for aside from the ending. Madison was placing in finals, but fans still seemed to miss the old Madison. On a bright note, their drumline was really starting to show signs of amazing quality. Pete Weber, a new upcoming drill writer, started showing signs of life for the visual program. 8th place overall. (New uniforms... again)

2005 was the best year (competitively) for Madison from the decade. The show was a modern adaptation of Carmen and featured a female solo dancer. Pete Weber's drill was on point, the colorguard was the best it's ever been, and IIRC the drumline placed 4th overall. Screaming solos and all. IMO this was still a fairly tame Madison show and still had a lot of design problems, but again, competitively it placed well. 6th place overall. (New Uniforms... AGAIN?)

2006 was when the problems of Salas' management began to make themselves known. If I remember correctly there was a lot of staff issues this season causing behind the scenes drama, but someone else might want to chime in on this. I think their lead screaming sop went down mid/early season. And to make matters worse, this was a very very symphonic Madison show with incredibly little old feeling to it. Pete Weber was swapped with Myron Rosander, and the Scouts had an unbelievable beast of a visual program that was of course impossible to clean. Drumline was still incredibly talented with Lee Beddis at the helm, but unfortunately there was no room to make up for the design mishaps. Despite having finals at home in Madison, the Scouts placed 9th overall and were unable to improve on last season's success. They also had new uniforms in a modern adaptation of their 1983-84 uniforms that didn't go over well. A new uniform for every season since Salas came in means a lot of expenses...

2007 was a scary year. There was a huge staff departure, and for good reason; Madison was in huge financial trouble due to the managing of the Salas years. But they were still afloat for now. The goal was no longer "make Finals", and unfortunately more along the lines of "make Finals and... OH we need to stay alive". The 4 tunes chosen for the show had very little "Madison" feel to it, and the corps itself seemed depleted from the shortcomings of staff departure. It was clearly trying to match the new direction of DCI design, but unfortunately didn't have the ammo or design chops to compete. People often claim this was the identity crisis at its worst. An old corps trying to be new. The opening of the show was actually pretty amazing, but aside from that this corps seemed like it just needed to keep its head above water. After an incredibly terrifying series of early season placements, the 2007 corps placed 15th overall. (New Uniforms... AGAIN)

2008 was a decent rebound year. The corps was a bit more stable and started showing signs of life. Madison Alums Dr. Nick Williams and Dann Petersen sort of led the helm while a few BD alums kept the drumline above water. This show was fast and nonstop, but the execution stayed high enough to keep it in the hunt for Finals. In the end things worked out and Madison snuck back into Finals with a 12th place finish. (NEW UNIFORMS AGAIN)

2009 was another scary year. Some very poor design choices. The designed a Latin superhero show... without a villain, making things incredibly hokey. The drumline, especially the bassline, was incredibly talented. IIRC the bassline won I&E that year and had an insane lick during the drum feature. Unfortunately the product held them down the entire season, and the Scouts fell to 15th place once again. (NEW UNIFORMS... kinda. I think it was just a new gigantic red sash that didn't work well)

In 2010 Jim Mason was brought on, and from there staff members just kinda came out of the woodwork to provide a huge amount of stability the Scouts were not at all used to. Jim Prime (Garfield, Star, and Blast! arranger), Jon Vanderkolff (Star 93 and Blast!), Thom Hannum, Nick Angelis... things were looking up. In 2010 the Scouts stormed back with an untitled old school show and placed 10th at Finals.

From 2011 to present the Scouts have been putting on great shows, but unfortunately cannot crack the top 8. Mason brought stability, but a lot of the design choices just weren't efficient enough to put Madison over the edge. It seemed like every year they'd get jumped by Boston or Blue Knights at some point and never catch up. 2011 - 10th Place, 2012 - 9th place, 2013 - 9th place, 2014 - 11th place.

So right now Madison has a bit of stability, but are still looking to push past the top 9 into better competitive territory.

Wow: GREAT summary of Madison's recent history!! And w/out sarcasm, negativity, or even (seemingly) bias! I've been following drum corps though out most of this time period, and I didn't know a lot of this stuff, so I appreciate the history lesson!

Edited by perc2100

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<snip>

I always thought 03 through 05 were the same uniforms... modified in 05 to remove all red accents so Carmen would stand out more in her red dress.

I know 08-09 were the same, just with the added sash.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will always have a tremendous ammount of respect for the members of the 2007 tour. If memory serves me right the corps was giving serious thought to not fielding a corps that year and the staff was assmbled in the late spring. There were definite struggles with the original visual designers thoughts on the drill at Memorial Day camp, and eventually changes were made early/mid/late season. The staff chemistry was good, but since everyone was a new face, it was definitely not to the level of staff chemistry/cohesion that a corps has with steady staff retention. Be that as it may, the season was a very positive experience in my mind for the members. I believe the 2007 administration treated the members more as adults and less as kids. That is not a slam on the previous administration, that is just my interpretation of what the members told me throughout the season. If I recall, there was a good ammount of member retention for the 2008 year.

I'm not really sure how the members dealt with all the changes, but I know that we never had the ammount of changes thrown at us during my marching years. Because of this, I will hold the members of 2007 on a pedastal for carrying the corps through a very uncertain time. In my mind, they are arguably one of the most important corps in Madison's history.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will always have a tremendous ammount of respect for the members of the 2007 tour. If memory serves me right the corps was giving serious thought to not fielding a corps that year and the staff was assmbled in the late spring. There were definite struggles with the original visual designers thoughts on the drill at Memorial Day camp, and eventually changes were made early/mid/late season. The staff chemistry was good, but since everyone was a new face, it was definitely not to the level of staff chemistry/cohesion that a corps has with steady staff retention. Be that as it may, the season was a very positive experience in my mind for the members. I believe the 2007 administration treated the members more as adults and less as kids. That is not a slam on the previous administration, that is just my interpretation of what the members told me throughout the season. If I recall, there was a good ammount of member retention for the 2008 year.

I'm not really sure how the members dealt with all the changes, but I know that we never had the ammount of changes thrown at us during my marching years. Because of this, I will hold the members of 2007 on a pedastal for carrying the corps through a very uncertain time. In my mind, they are arguably one of the most important corps in Madison's history.

Spot on. As an alum, and teacher of a 2007 member in high school. Your thoughts on 2007 and into 2008 are spot on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2007 was a scary year. There was a huge staff departure, and for good reason; Madison was in huge financial trouble due to the managing of the Salas years. But they were still afloat for now. The goal was no longer "make Finals", and unfortunately more along the lines of "make Finals and... OH we need to stay alive". The 4 tunes chosen for the show had very little "Madison" feel to it, and the corps itself seemed depleted from the shortcomings of staff departure. It was clearly trying to match the new direction of DCI design, but unfortunately didn't have the ammo or design chops to compete. People often claim this was the identity crisis at its worst. An old corps trying to be new. The opening of the show was actually pretty amazing, but aside from that this corps seemed like it just needed to keep its head above water. After an incredibly terrifying series of early season placements, the 2007 corps placed 15th overall. (New Uniforms... AGAIN)

I believe the opening drill was actually written for when the corps first entered the field, but it was so well received it was changed to the actual opener.

Edited by alice1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always thought 03 through 05 were the same uniforms... modified in 05 to remove all red accents so Carmen would stand out more in her red dress.

I know 08-09 were the same, just with the added sash.

I think they changed slightly year to year. Looking back it seems you're kinda right about them. They used the same jackets with different gauntlets. Strange how they made such a big difference in uniform in my memory though, especially for 03-04.

03 was mostly green with white gauntlets.

04 was the same jacket/pants combo with red accented gauntlets.

05 was new jackets, aussies, and guantlets with silver half fleurs.

Regardless, that many changes just sticks out in my mind simply due to the amount of financial trouble Madison had to dig themselves out of from 07 onward. 06 especially was a headscratcher.

I believe the opening drill was actually written for when the corps first entered the field, but it was so well received it was changed to the actual opener.

Yes I think this is correct. I think 2006 or 2007 was the first year of the "playing and moving non-judged warmup timed with announcer". Madison started out the season concluding that opening section by turning towards the backfield, but sometime midseason made the very good choice of making it part of the judged program and turning towards the audience. It's one of my favorite openings they've ever done, especially with all the singing. Just one of those "I have no idea how this is cool, but it definitely is" things. That was an Alanis Morissette tune too! Seriously, on paper that had no business being one of the coolest things that would come out of the 2007 season let alone their entire history.

Edited by NR_Ohiobando

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.