2nd line G

MADISON SCOUTS 2015

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Also BRASSO, may I point out this you said the following in the Boston Crusaders 75th Anniversary post (post #29)

There is no distinction in placements with Corps that do traditional based shows with music and themes understood by audiences, and highly avant garde " out there " shows done by Corps. Its all in the design and execution. Cadets finished 3rd ( 2nd all year however ) with a show that was clearly traditional in nature, but they have scored just as well with progressive, avant garde, " out there " type shows too. BK have done avant garde, " dark shows " in the past and got buried in placements, but this year they did a very bright show with a theme that was easily understood by a child, and accompanied with uplifting music, and scored their highest in years. Crown has finished 5th in placement with " out there " designed shows ( this year), but higher in placement other years ( 4th ) with traditional based, easily understood themes with music understoood by most audiences ( "Rach Star" ). Cadets played " Jingle Bells" ( 2012 ) and finished 4th, yet played " White Rabbit" in a VERY out there, Avant garde show in 2006 and finished 5th. ... BD played the " out there " themed show" Constantly Risking Absurdity " theme into 2nd place, but played the easily understood traditional show themed " The Phenonomom of Cool" ( 2003) into a DCI Title. Yet, on the other hand, the Cadets played the " out there " themed " The Zone " into a DCI Title too.

Bottom line ?... Corps are primarily judged by the HOW, ( it is done ) not the WHAT( is played, or depicted for a theme ). In that case, my message to BAC ( for little its worth ) is to go with a theme that is easily understood, and with music and visual that is appealing to most audiences. The rest will take care of itself if you can execute the heck out of it. And that comes about thru good retention, and strong recruitment, imo

Why exactly have you written the EXACT POLAR OPPOSITE of what you wrote in this topic here? It seems like you have a little thinking to do about which side you're actually on. If you're going to try to derail threads by pointlessly bringing the G7 into every single thing you post, atleast do it right. :poke:

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I only know this... if the Madison Scouts do a Christmas Show, or a show revolving around a long ago Italian filmmaker, or an outer space themed show featuring frisbees, trampolines, and exotic costuming, they will find themselves quickly exiting the TOP 12.

The current DCI judging community, most of whom have AARP discount cards in their personal wallets, grew up with the Madison Scouts. While they might say they value something out of the ordinary, when push comes to shove, they have certain expectations in shows from the Scouts, and if the Scouts do a show on jungle Iguanas or some exotic themes of faraway forces of nature, or some such, they will play right into the hands of Cesario and his Crew that really doesn't want that sort of thing from the Madison Scouts ( or even the Troopers ) no matter what they say publically. Cadets, Phantom, SCV have all done rehashed themed shows of late as a redo, and it did not hurt them score wise or placement wise in the least. The Madison Scouts should never... EVER.... do a silent, soft ending to their show, as the judges will simply not allow that from a Madison Scouts as it unnerves them from a 50 year image they justifiably have of this particular Corps. My guess, the new staff recognizes this, and that the Madison Scouts will ditch this failed foray into " going soft " with the ending of their show, and will do a Madison Scouts show, and ending that is classic Madison Scouts. Then like all the non G7 corps, its just a matter of cleaning it, and executing it. Thats my 2 cents worth of advice to the Madison Scouts anyway.

I agree with Cappy - this doesn't seem to make much sense. Why would Madison be any different than any other corps with regard to straying away from their roots? BD strayed away from their roots a while ago and it didn't seem to hurt them competitively one iota (but it did hurt my liking of the corps - for what that's worth - with the exception of this year, which I and seemingly almost everyone else feel that they went back a little more to their roots).

Like Cappy said in his response, you singled out Cadets when they (with their long history like Madison) strayed away from their roots with an "out there" show in 2005 and it didn't seem to hurt them either that year.

Edited by Quad Aces

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I'd love to here any of Michael Camillo's One More Once on the field. Awesome big band Latin jazz album. Hasn't been done by any corps that I know of. Check it out.

Perhaps not from the same album, but Scouts did do Camilo's "En Fuego" in 1996 (one of my favorite shows of all time).

Funny story - I didn't know this song was from the same person you were talking about. Went to go check out Camilo's stuff like you suggested - which you were right and is very cool - when I came across his "On Fire". I thought, given how much I liked the stuff I heard from what you recommended, a song titled "On Fire" has to be great, right? After a minute or so of listening, I thought, "Wait a second - this sounds familiar". Checked corpsreps.com, and sure enough, same tune from Madison's 1996 show.

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here's what I hope for.....

Madison picks something that thrills fans, but doesn't feel beholden to live up to mythical past shows such as 91-97, 99, 82-83,88 etc.My biggest issue as a fan has been watching Madison try to please those who want the past redone, and realizing in DCI you need to move forward. 2013 was IMO the closest they came to merging the two demands placed on them, which often conflict.

Just be Madison. Why did 2010 work? It wasn't super deep and it connected to fans. same for 11 and 13. the talent pool in DCI has never been greater, so wearing all white leaves you open to visual issues being magnified.

yup...they need to be what they want to be one foot in the past one in the present doesnt always work I agree about 2013. You cant please everyone so just compete, it's 2015 now!

Edited by GUARDLING

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Madison should announce they're gonna do a western show, thereby forcing Troopers to abandon that theme and go with something else. Everybody wins! Then a few months before the start of the season Scouts announce they've decided to not do a western show after all, rather they'll be doing something more in the

Madison style. But by then it's too late for Troop to change and they proceed with their Bartok show.. Everybody wins again!

I did all this without the assistance of any mood altering medication.

What about an Irish show? What would Pioneer do?

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When it comes to Madison tradition and sound, during the DCI era, between 1973 and 1999, Madison only placed below 7th twice, most years hovering between 5th and 6th. Their most memorable shows and that classic sound was very present at that time. Since 2000, they have only placed as high as 6th once and fell from finals twice. Now I have enjoyed many of their shows in these years, but I wonder of the corps has ever really recovered from the Key of G to B-flat switch. I am not advocating they return to those days and I know times have changed, but the Madison magic can be found in those years. The challenge is how to bring it to 2015. They had glimpses of it in the past few years. ESOM alone made 2011. They attempted a sophisticated show in 2012. I thought 2013 was as entertaining as 1999 (Jesus Christ Superstar) and 2005 (Carmen Project) and 2014 had some great sound and I enjoyed the guard.

For me, the challenge is to recreate the magic without being nostalgic while being relevant to contemporary drum corps all while maintaining the Madison tradition and making the audience swoon. Of course if I knew the answer, I'd be in Madison designing their best show yet and not on DCP.

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Perhaps not from the same album, but Scouts did do Camilo's "En Fuego" in 1996 (one of my favorite shows of all time).

Funny story - I didn't know this song was from the same person you were talking about. Went to go check out Camilo's stuff like you suggested - which you were right and is very cool - when I came across his "On Fire". I thought, given how much I liked the stuff I heard from what you recommended, a song titled "On Fire" has to be great, right? After a minute or so of listening, I thought, "Wait a second - this sounds familiar". Checked corpsreps.com, and sure enough, same tune from Madison's 1996 show.

96 is one of my favorites of all time too. '95 gets all the hype, but I like '96 better. One of the best upper lead soprano lines ever. I didn't realize they did some of Camillo's stuff that year. Thanks!

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Since 2000, they have only placed as high as 6th once and fell from finals twice. Now I have enjoyed many of their shows in these years, but I wonder of the corps has ever really recovered from the Key of G to B-flat switch.

During this time period, have they not had brass writers/instructors who have taught higher placing brass lines? (I really don't know.)

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When it comes to Madison tradition and sound, during the DCI era, between 1973 and 1999, Madison only placed below 7th twice, most years hovering between 5th and 6th. Their most memorable shows and that classic sound was very present at that time. Since 2000, they have only placed as high as 6th once and fell from finals twice. Now I have enjoyed many of their shows in these years, but I wonder of the corps has ever really recovered from the Key of G to B-flat switch. I am not advocating they return to those days and I know times have changed, but the Madison magic can be found in those years. The challenge is how to bring it to 2015. They had glimpses of it in the past few years. ESOM alone made 2011. They attempted a sophisticated show in 2012. I thought 2013 was as entertaining as 1999 (Jesus Christ Superstar) and 2005 (Carmen Project) and 2014 had some great sound and I enjoyed the guard.

For me, the challenge is to recreate the magic without being nostalgic while being relevant to contemporary drum corps all while maintaining the Madison tradition and making the audience swoon. Of course if I knew the answer, I'd be in Madison designing their best show yet and not on DCP.

I think the staff of the last few year has done just what you are asking.( and a good job of it ) This also in itself can be a problem. I think, as I have said, having your feet in both the present and the past can always be an issue and very tricky. I do think ( knowing several personally ) they were also thinking of pleasing way to many people. Judges, ( which it is a competition and they want to stay in finals ) Audience , alumni, etc etc. maybe it's time to just do want they want and not try so hard. You will NEVER please everyone. People think they might have the answers to all this BUT saying well do this or that is one thing, actually doing it, putting your reputation as well as money and a season on the line is something quite different.

So what's the answer? Well, I say 1st decide what you want to be as a corps . Could it mean a flair of the big sound, aggressive Madison we know , yes it could be. could it mean the complete opposite YES it could be. Does the corps need to remember it's going on 2015 and they are in a competition. YES, 1st and foremost! It's nice to think we all don't care about competition but thats easy to say on this side of it. Fall out of the competitive arena and there might not be a corps. JMO

Edited by GUARDLING
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That's absolutely ridiculous. Do some corps have strong identities? Sure. But doing a show out of a corps' identity is not going to hurt their score in any way. The only reason it would hurt their score would be if the staff weren't capable of teaching the style effectively to the members. General effect is general effect, and the corps that's performing the effect doesn't make a difference (well, other than execution scores). It's all in the show design.

Agree...their only placement in the top 6 this century was a show decidedly outside of their identity, even using a female in the guard as they performed "Carmen" (and yes, I know their director's 10-year-old daughter marched in 71 as 'Alice').

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