troon8 Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) What does "Star of Indiana returning" even mean? I'm not just being a smart a** about semantics (for once.) Consider the following scenarios... 1. World Class Corp A folds for a year, but returns 1-2 years later, still under the name Corps A with most of the staff in place. They're in Open Class that year, as the rules dictate. I think think the general opinion would be that they are still Corps A. The Troopers come to mind, even though they re-entered as World Class, if I remember correctly. I think that most would have agreed that year that the Troopers had returned, not a new, separate corps from the one of years past calling themselves the Troopers 2. World Class Corps B folds for 5-10 years. Returns with a few of the original staff, calls themselves Open Class Corps B. Are they still Corps B? 3. World Class Corps C folds. 20 years pass. A group enters as a small Soundsport unit calling themselves Corps C. Are they still Corps C? Would it matter if they had some of the original staff? Would it matter if they carried over the original finances but had managed to erase their debt and raise enough cash to return? What if they did all those things but were in Open Class with the intention of transitioning to World in a few seasons? 4. Now let's imagine that a real, long lasting corps with well-established traditions and a distinct identity folds. Say, for the sake of an entirely hypothetical scenario, SCV. How long is the cutoff before any corps that returns under the name wouldn't be considered the same corps as they were before the hiatus? 5 years? 10? Or could Vanguard return at any indefinite point in the future and still be Vanguard? The questions I'm trying to ask with all this are what is the cutoff for a corps to retain, lose, or reestablish its identity? Is it a factor of time? The name being used? The people involved? The music being played? The non-performance traditions? The legalities of the name? Edited August 26, 2014 by troon8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdm Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 What does "Star of Indiana returning" even mean? I'm not just being a smart a** about semantics (for once.) Consider the following scenarios... 1. World Class Corp A folds for a year, but returns 1-2 years later, still under the name Corps A with most of the staff in place. They're in Open Class that year, as the rules dictate. I think think the general opinion would be that they are still Corps A. 2. World Class Corps B folds for 5-10 years. Returns with a few of the original staff, calls themselves Open Class Corps B. Are they still Corps B? 3. World Class Corps C folds. 20 years pass. A group enters as a small Soundsport unit calling themselves Corps C. Are they still Corps C? Would it matter if they had some of the original staff? Would it matter if they carried over the original finances but had managed to erase their debt and raise enough cash to return? What if they did all those things but were in Open Class with the intention of transitioning to World in a few seasons? 4. Now let's imagine that a real, long lasting corps with well-established traditions and a distinct identity folds. Say, for the sake of an entirely hypothetical scenario, SCV. How long is the cutoff before any corps that returns under the name wouldn't be considered the same corps as they were before the hiatus? 5 years? 10? Or could Vanguard return at any indefinite point in the future and still be Vanguard? The questions I'm trying to ask with all this are what is the cutoff for a corps to retain, lose, or reestablish its identity? Is it a factor of time? The name being used? The people involved? The music being played? The non-performance traditions? I really do not see any time frame for a cutoff. Be it 1 sec, or 1000 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) I think he just put the 'in 1992' in a confusing place, leading to a grammatical ambiguity such as 'I shot an elephant in my pajamas'... nm... Edited August 26, 2014 by HornTeacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afd Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Star of Indiana's situation is a lot different than other corps who are not in the activity today. 27th, Bridgemen, Velvet Knights, Glassmen ect. indeed folded for one reason or another but basically it was financial. Star chose to leave the competitive field. Why? They were successful. I truly thought they would eventually come back after a few years off but it never happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I think he just put the 'in 1992' in a confusing place, leading to a grammatical ambiguity such as 'I shot an elephant in my pajamas'... Nice reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchromik Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) I would stay Star's contributions live on in an important way with every corps that is solvent. Bill Cook's efforts were not a whim and his business expertise which he applied to Star served as a model for other corps at a time many corps were near broke. He also showed that action contributes more to drum corps than griping. Of course anytime someone is innovative, Star in 1990,91, or 93 is invoked. Star still exists, just not as a corps. Yes. One cannot overstate how important and influential Bill's contributions and advice was to the way corps are run. No more broken down buses being push started. No more kids being fed with a couple of burners and a freezer out of a Ryder truck. We may have lost more then a few corps along the way due to not being able to keep up or adapt to such standards. But the corps experience of 2014 is a bit safer and more comfortable. And that allows the kids to concentrate on learning, performing, and having fun. Where Star really exists is on the staffs and admins of today's corps. As I look through the DCI yearbook I can point to at least one Star Alum teaching or involved in most of the corps north of 15th place. Some top groups contain nearly a dozen former members and/or instructors from SOI. Two new Open class units came on the field this year under the directorship of Star Alums. And a few of us old farts are still on the field and stage at DCA. I like to think of it as the big tree may have passed away, but in it's former shadow a hundred new ones now grow. It's an amazing legacy given the relative number of folks involved in the 9 drum corps years. A tribute to the teachers and direction we received from folks such as George Zingali, Donnie Van Doren, Jim Mason, and dozens more. And of course Bill Cook, who deeply inspired and influenced us all. Drum Corps needs another Star-like entity. A well funded, extrememly well run corps that is more of less a clean sheet of paper. Unrestrained by history or tradition. But it doesn't need the Star of Indiana. It is best left in it's mythical 'what if' status. Edited August 26, 2014 by mchromik 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) The questions I'm trying to ask with all this are what is the cutoff for a corps to retain, lose, or reestablish its identity? Is it a factor of time? The name being used? The people involved? The music being played? The non-performance traditions? The legalities of the name? Good questions. I only recently learned from this video featuring Steve Rondinaro that, on the DCA side, the Syracuse Bridgadiers, founded in 1953, who placed as high as third in 1968, didn't compete for 19 years following the 1973 season before returning in 1992 ... and going on to win five titles (and place no lower than second from 1997 through 2004--a record even the Blue Devils have yet to match, although Buccaneers have surpassed it) before going inactive again. But were they really the same legal entity, and how much personnel carryover, if any, was there? Edited August 26, 2014 by N.E. Brigand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) Heck...while we're at it, we don't we just bring back the '27 Yankees...the '67 Packers...the '72 Lakers...and A.J. Foyt. Seems reasonable enough. Heck...on second thought...you might be onto something. Bring 'em back. But only under a new name. Let's see...we'll call them the "Knights of Indiana." Wait a second...that might not work, either. Silly me. Edited August 26, 2014 by HornTeacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share Posted August 26, 2014 So, could I start Star here in Delaware and would it still be star of Indiana or 27th Lancers Maryland? I know its not Indiana but you get my drift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) My understanding with the Brigs is alumni of the corps were asked to come down during retreat at a show and lot of people showed up. People from this group then got together to bring back the corps. At least that's what I remember from the Brigs section in History of DC Vol II. No idea on your questions though.... OK hornteacher what's with the new avatar... don't think the Starets(sp) did a lot with music... Edited August 26, 2014 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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