Kilties

[hairbear]

What then, ARE the perceived barriers to success? Talent? No. They've done quite well in I&E competition whenever they've entered as solos or ensembles. Funding? No. Brewfest has been and IS, successful as a fundraising event. Logistics? No. Other programs in their region have become DCA Champions. Fees? No. The cost to participate is comparable to most DCA member corps, if not, lower. What is keeping them from experiencing competitive success? What barriers remain?

[Kamarag]

What then, ARE the perceived barriers to success? Talent? No. They've done quite well in I&E competition whenever they've entered as solos or ensembles. Funding? No. Brewfest has been and IS, successful as a fundraising event. Logistics? No. Other programs in their region have become DCA Champions. Fees? No. The cost to participate is comparable to most DCA member corps, if not, lower. What is keeping them from experiencing competitive success? What barriers remain?

Programming and design, uniforms, size, ability to perform, ability to execute, lack of content to perform and execute...

[N.E. Brigand]

Programming and design, uniforms, size, ability to perform, ability to execute, lack of content to perform and execute...

I like the uniforms, myself.

As for size, Kilties are about as big as the top three Class A corps, who all managed significantly higher scores.

[Kamarag]

I like the uniforms, myself.

As for size, Kilties are about as big as the top three Class A corps, who all managed significantly higher scores.

I like the uniforms too, but they are holding the corps back competitively, which was the question at hand. I think there's a way to honor the corps' heritage without the corps proper being in kilts (leave that for the DM and honor guard). I've judged groups in kilts like they wear, and it's incredibly hard to get a solid read on feet, particularly from the box.

[lovindrumcorps]

Programming and design, uniforms, size, ability to perform, ability to execute, lack of content to perform and execute...

This is probably the simplest but most accurate answer. All of DCA had to adapt to the current philosophy that corps like Cabs, Bucs, & MBI have been using to stay competitively successful. DCA is a very small community. If the Kilties are truly looking to take that leap than maybe inquire from within the circuit. I doubt anyone would seriously turn their backs on them. A little good advice could go a long way. Even Skylines are at least trying.

[Jeff Ream]

One of the reasons I feel suggestions and ideas will fall on deaf ears, is the lack of meaningful participation in this conversation, by somebody who posts a link and nothing else. The recent and current BOD have a history of assuming a defensive posture whenever approached. Silence is not golden.

It's called deflection

[Jeff Ream]

The parallels between the Kilties in DCA and Pioneer in DCI are almost scary.

Pioneer has more talent

[hairbear]

If then, several barriers don't exist, those that remain can easily be overcome. What it will take is selflessness, courage and the desire to move the program in the right direction. As another contributor to this conversation stated, the corps belongs to a far larger group than just the BOD. I firmly believe that to be the case.

[Donny Drum Corps]

not true that Pioneer has more talent in the brass line. Maybe percussion, Jeff, but the Kilts brass line is very talented.

That being said, I think I could help the Kilties.

DA

[BigW]

There are a lot of things to sift through.

I've been thinking about all of it, and one of the reasons why was because I wanted to offer some sincere thoughts on the matter.

Some of the answers/solutions aren't as quite as black and white as they seem to be when I read through this. I'll try and come up with some comments that I hope can be helpful.

I'm also posting as someone with a grad degree in Education, someone who still remembers being a kid, and what I was thinking, and someone who listens more carefully than some folks think to a lot of the younger crew who are on the field.

I read where some folks seem to want the punch in the face or the musicality. Ray Eyler, Frank Dorittie, and Dave Rohrer taught me to do both exceptionally well. Subtlety and explosiveness have been part of the activity for decades. You can't compartmentalize them. Ever.

What do kids want? That's tricky. When Bill put up the link to the tasting festival (by the way, I usually have a few varieties of craft beer in my fridge- I'm a beer snob- Victory Hop Devil is nice to have a bottle of after a rough night shift), it wasn't a distraction. People were asking pointedly what the brand/corps is about, and I think he subtly put up the answer, and it's not beer, which some folks jumped on too quickly.

I quote from the site:

"Our core values are character, honor, excellence, and tradition".

Here's the rub. To a 51 year old me, I get this. The 16 year old me would have thought they understood this, but, not really.

I'll try and illustrate the point here from personal experience. I remember sitting at lunch at District Band with Steve Rook, who recruited me into Westshore in 1979. I flat-out told him, the corps wasn't that good. I came from a decent competitive HS band, I wanted something very challenging for myself to tackle and experience. I wasn't thinking or giving one hoot about character, honor, tradition. I'm 16. Kids don't know enough about life to really have a good handle on that stuff.

Steve told me:

"I know the corps' not been that good, but we're getting better. We have a plan in place, a good plan where we'll get better. Part of the plan is that we need good musicians like you on board. Check out practice, see what you think."

I stayed for 6 years. Steve was right. A plan was in place, and I was in a top end DCA corps for 5 of those 6 years. After I got on board and started to experience success with the corps, experience good and bad education- mostly great education, and got better as a musician and performer- then I started to learn about character, honor, tradition as I grew up the hard way.

Kids who seriously want to be in this activity want to find out how great they can be. They want to be challenged and get experiences they wouldn't get in their HS programs. They want to be with an organization where everyone wants to be there and be excellent, not because their Mommy and Daddy make them, or because their BFF, BF, and GF's are there. You want to recruit the kids? You appeal to those things first. You also deliver to them an educational experience where they're learning more than they were in HS, growing musically, and personally. If you get a kid thinking "... man, my HS band's better than this!..." you won't keep them. They consider it a waste of their time when they could be chasing their romantic interests.

You also need to be competitive. I don't mean come in first place. I mean that the membership needs to know they have a legitimate fighting chance against somebody if they rehearse hard and perform as well as they can. You want young people on board, you have to have some plan that offers a feeling of competitiveness- whether that means just making finals, just beating someone, anybody at all.

I read the comments about CV. I'd think the situation wasn't as cut and dried nor as draconian as I felt it was spelled out. From personal experience, we had a couple of experienced vets who were excised from the corps due to their substance issues. Certain individuals just got mentally tired after years of doing it or had work commitments. I know we didn't tell people to up their game or hit the road. People got married, moved, went to college, got a new job, frustrated with the lack of success in the corps, whatever. The same happens in Atlanta, I'm sure. The top DCA corps have "old folks" in them still. That's not as cut and dried as it was made out to be. Time moves on, and folks will transition in and out. Ream said earlier on in some thread you don't have to move at 220 to be good. He's right. Smart design and quality instruction will enable success. The issue is, you need new people every season. Those people generally are the young'ins. You need to make the organization attractive for them to come on board, and want to stay. If they're not, find out why. Do something about it, and fast.

As for the uniform, I've seen where good visual design and instruction can make the Kilts work for a program. It takes a lot of effort and knowledge. It may mean the uniform needs some subtle tailoring to make them work. The Cabs did just that. The unis look the same- but they were tweaked to get around some visual issues they had with them.

And yeah, Donny can help. An understatement if there ever was one. I know I could learn mucho from him as a musician and would appreciate it.

There are a lot of future options that should be put on the table for the corps. Continuing to do what's been done the past couple of years could be one of them, but I sincerely hope it's not seriously considered.