chaos001 Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) HornTeacher -- if "research can only establish correlations -- however, it can never establish causality" is true, then how can you so confidently refute that there is a causal relationship between 2 variables which correlate with one another? "The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." Wouldn't the most logical (in fact, the only logical) position be that of uncertainty? In this case, musical taste (or ability to musically perform) might cause, or be caused by, heightened intelligence. Or, these 2 variables correlate with one another due to a 3rd variable (like family upbringing, or genetics, or socioeconomics, or exposure to a certain gut bacteria, or alignment of the stars, or......). But again, absence of proof of causality between musical taste and intelligence is not proof that this causal relationship does not exist. Your argument shifts from logical to speculative about "weeding out"; not altogether different from the speculation of the initial claim that certain music can make a person dumber. Highlighted section in first paragraph: you, in a circular fashion, have defined correlation, more or less. Nothing causes anything unless there is a direct link. Intelligence, in and of itself, doesn't cause anything. All intelligence really is is a measure of potential intellectual ability against a standard (a highly racially biased standard as well). Edited October 25, 2014 by chaos001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
year1buick Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I bet Stephen Hawking jams out to All About That Bass while contemplating the nature of the universe. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouttimp Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I bet Stephen Hawking jams out to All About That Bass while contemplating the nature of the universe. I'm in Kansas City. It's "All About That Base" tonight. Thank You. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) The title of this thread is.... " Music that makes you dumb ". The time consumption of ones music listening probably has an equally dubious value as to what Music a person tends to listen too. Besides, no distinction here in this dumb " research " makes allowance for those that listen to lots of one genre, as compared with those who might have a broader range of listening to Music split about evenly across the wide spectrum here. Additionally, Is such a person considered bright on a SAT score- Music Choice methodology simply because they listened to lots of " Beethoven" during their Music Ed degree days, while so many of them are later found waiting on tables taking Fine Dining orders from once low SAT scoring Real Estate Agents and similar ? What " intelligent " relevance is there to one's personal music listening choices anyway ?.... besides a feeble and dubious attempt here to link and quantify what surely appears to be unquantifiable things ? This dumb researcher appears to have wasted their time on a meaningless exercise that in the end probably only destroyed a few brain cells of us that were confronted with the unfortunate occurance to have read it in the first place. Edited October 25, 2014 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peel Paint Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 I'm in Kansas City. It's "All About That Base" tonight. Thank You. ...which of course just cries out for bringing Back from the Dead... Royals to Giants: GOOD MORNING GENTLEMEN ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US YOU ARE ON YOUR WAY TO DESTRUCTION YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE MAKE YOUR TIME http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fvTxv46ano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peel Paint Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) OK...my educator's two-cents worth... First, one of the strongest messages my research professor in graduate school constantly reminded us of was this...research can only establish correlations -- however, it can never establish causality. With this idea in mind...music cannot, in and of itself, make you "dumb"...nor make you "smart." Music educators (hell, the entire field altogether...or at least, MOST...and yes, that is intentionally said to demarkate myself from other members of the field) love to point out that such things as "research has shown that students who study music for X amount of years score X number of points higher on SAT, ACT, and all other standardized test scores." Once they claim that, then they smugly make the correlation of "therefore, the study of music will lead to your child ultimately scoring higher on these tests." All to which, I say...HOGWASH!!! You're right of course. And I think the original author's heard the first point from maybe one or two people. If you click the link to the "study" in Garfield's post, the author says: Yes, I'm aware correlation ≠causation. The results are hilarity incarnate regardless of causality. You can stop sending me email about this distinction. Thanks. I'd also argue that it's not "hilarity incarnate," but he's probably not amused by some things I find hilarious either. His "study" is about as significant as a newspaper astrology column to me. Edited October 25, 2014 by Peel Paint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Probably not accurate, at least in all cases. I was strictly classical in high school, a bit of a musical snob if I'm honest, but my SAT scores were probably closer to the the Lil Wayne side than the Beethoven. In all seriousness, drum corps, and school music programs as well, often blend musical styles in creative ways, and the best learning takes place when subjects are multi-disciplinary (my big word of the day), so I think the research that shows music makes you brighter would be accuarate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) My biased hunch is that reading lots of intellectually stimulating books and/ or studying a lot of school required texts tends to make most students score higher on SAT scores than listening to lots of music.... of any stripe. ( but I'm not privy to any research data out there to bolster my preconceived biases on this. ) Edited October 25, 2014 by BRASSO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 My biased hunch is that reading lots of academically inclined books and/ or studying a lot tends to make most students score higher on SAT scores than listening to lots of music.... of any stripe. ( but I'm not privy to any research data out there to bolster my preconceived biases on this. ) I'm perfectly willing and honored to stand with you on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) I'm perfectly willing and honored to stand with you on this. I learned early on.. in Kindergarden ...how important it was to be on board with whatever it was with someone named " Richard Stands " believed in. He apparently was a bigdeal, and the teacher and all the others in class saluted him each and every morning with.... " I plewdge a legions to the flag ...of the United Straits of America... and to the Republic.... for Richard Stands....one Nation, Under God, imda.. fissable..... etc. Edited October 25, 2014 by BRASSO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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