Jeff Ream Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 What was supposedly optional certainly seemed all but mandatory in DCI starting in 2009, when corps after corps had a surfeit of nasty bass goo. This is why my first post in this thread was to advise DCA to learn from DCI's mistakes. My point being, there really were a lot of mistakes, a lot more than there should have been from people who were supposedly going to handle amplification and electronics expertly. Several sound engineering professionals on these forums have said so repeatedly. I took a professional sound engineer to a show last year, and he concurred. SCV the past two seasons has indeed shown improvement in this regard. But it's completely wrong to say BD only use electronics for amplification in the last few seasons--and even though BD this year was less overrun by noise than in the two previous seasons--da da is da da is da da--I am led to believe (not having acquired the 2014 CDs or DVDs yet) that some of their prerecorded material this year was actually cut from the recording for copyright reasons. amps were optional last year in DCA. Not every corps used them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 You're still begging the question. I asked why brass players prefer corps with synths, and your answer is, essentially, that they just do. brass players prefer corps that are considered to be designing cutting edge shows. Kids today see DCI eith the electronics, BOA, TOB, USBands etc that have them, and they consider those shows to be cutting edge. Then they see DCA which doesn't have them, and outside of maybe 4 corps...they say "so what's the big deal?". thats why brass players would want those kinds of shows. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Amps were optional last year in DCA. Not every corps used them. Not only did I know that, but I'd even said it two or three times already in this thread. You know, like when I said that Minnesota's pit was too loud? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Brass players prefer corps that are considered to be designing cutting-edge shows. Kids today see DCI eith the electronics, BOA, TOB, USBands etc that have them, and they consider those shows to be cutting edge. Then they see DCA which doesn't have them, and outside of maybe four corps... they say, "So what's the big deal?" That's why brass players would want those kinds of shows. OK, well thanks for answering that question. I do appreciate it. Mind you, here's how I read your answer: corps need to cater to dumb kids. It's like George Lucas explaining years ago why explosions in the near-vacuum of space are audible in Star Wars: the audience doesn't know any better. It's sad, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Unfortunately, DCA has, maybe, 25 other groups that perform at its events. I'm thinking several of them will get carried away, do things poorly, etc. just because of some need to chase the 'big guys.' It will be similar to small, lower talented corps we ALREADY see presenting shows that are way beyond their reach. Say, corps with 40 members who write drills that use the entire 100 yards. Playing too difficult parts. I would say that most staffs have avoided this kind of thing- that most of the top staffs are pretty savvy. People throwing things in for the sake of throwing them in should know better. They'll get told as much, and they won't like it- but tough. Staffs that have had design and programming issues before this and continue not to learn from their mistakes will continue to score low with or without the electronics. If they do not choose to use them and still fail because of poor design decisions, well, now they have a straw dog excuse to complain to everyone as to why they're failing. My guess is this, Fred--- The member corps who voted "yes" on this issue have already had plans in place to fully integrate these tools in their presentations for this season, or-- they planned on integrating for 2016 after close observation and figuring out what they need to have and how to do it after the more innovative teams take the greater risk. More later on some of the "kids" issues- I think that's more of a non-starter and dead end by my gut feeling. Obviously at least 6 of the DCA member teams creative staffs felt the desire to start to design and create with the additional assets. My guess would be that feeling pressure to include them from the membership or for recruiting was a secondary at best reason- they think they can create better, more meaningful and enjoyable packages with them that will excite and inspire everyone rather than without. Given the kind of people staffing those teams, I respect them enough to trust them to pull it off well. We'll have to wait and see, and it'll be interesting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) sure. i get it. you're more opened minded than even you want to let on. others aren't Blame my mom and WSM 1974/1975. Mom beat into my rock like skull that "if everyone liked the same thing this world would be pretty boring". And heard "that ain't drum corps" a few times in the 70s when I wondered what their problem was. Now it's my turn to be less than happy about some things so it doesn't surprise me. So I turned into a twisted little snot who actually LIKES to talk to people I disagree with to try to understand their point of view. Freaks the Hell out of some people which is an added bonus. As for open minded *shrug* if I like something enough I spend money and time to watch. If not I find something else. And there are certain corps who are my bathroom break corps every show (competing and alumni type). Will probably be watching over the internet again in 2015 so will give me an opportunity to see how it goes. Actually wouldn't mind checking some DCI shows from the non-top corps but hitting time constraints so far. Best and saddest line I heard on the Alumni state of affairs was from someone who was on the first BoD for the RCA (not Uncle Chuck S). "Ever get the idea we're playing for each other?". Lot of people with his background would be defensive about what's going on but he looked at it in a realistic way and saw the problems. Had a nice conversation with that start but that would really derail this thread. PS - saw the "new member" pic at Trinity, looks better than ours was.... Edited December 9, 2014 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I do find it hysterical seeing people say corps will go broke when many corps borrow stuff from bands already like they could with this. And I find it hysterical when people suggest that electronics are necessary for drum corps to survive. Like this: and I'll feel better that DCA will be around in 20 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I concur with these gents about putting your money where your mouth is. I went to the alumni spectacular, and they place was empty. Which is sad. Which alumni show did you go to? The one I attended was far from empty, despite the rain. But the DCA Alumni Spectacular is a popular punching bag these days. One must remember that these are, to a large extent, "alumni corps". As such, membership is sometimes limited to participants of past corps, and show material is sometimes limited to reproducing the past. They do not compete. They do not match their level of achievement back in their competitive days. Some such groups cater to the limitations of performers who are now greatly advanced in age. It is amazing that they do as much as they do with those challenges. The timing and marketing of their Sunday morning event is obviously only a side attraction in the overall scope of DCA weekend. What makes anyone think there is some greater conclusion to be drawn regarding style and audience draw by comparing the Alumni Spectacular to current competing corps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 as I stated before...kids want what they have EVERYWHERE ELSE. That is odd. DCA has never had that. Yet, DCA has gotten a LOT younger over the past couple of decades. From the low point in 1993, the circuit doubled in size in a dozen years, partly thanks to the visibly increasing youth participation. Evidently, electronics was not the attraction that turned DCA into a youth movement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 ...and that's a very fair point. The problem is, there's little discussion, particularly by the "that ain't drum corps!" crowd. The pro-evolution folks (of which I am admittedly one) provide support for their argument, while those opposed generally resort to slippery slope or ad hominem flights of logical fallacy. What is your logic, by the way? The logic I see here for "evolution" is that kids want what is promoted in popular music, kids want what is available to them, kids want what they already have in other performing ensembles, and that is why we need electronics. Well, woodwinds fit that description too. The prevailing "logic" suggests that we must therefore also include woodwinds in drum corps. To refuse would be to cease "evolution", and thus die. Agree or disagree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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