Rules Congress

[BigW]

The real differences between both Band and corps are these-

Very few privately owned or operated marching bands in the US for youth. Most are run under school auspices. Lehighton, PA had some private organization, I don't know if they still do. Burlington, Ontario has a town band for youth, some small ones run under various civic organizations in Quebec.

The other real difference that separates, and is the big selling point for many kids wanting to perform in DCI or DCA is this-- Do you want to be part of an organization where you don't have kids in it that are only there because Mommy and Daddy make them participate? Do you want to be where people want to be there and be excellent, and aren't there because they can get free trips to the football games with great seats or hang with their friends? Where you're not thought of as some kind of appendage to the football program and have to sit though crappy football games and still get made fun of by the jocks who don't have enough brain cells to learn the first 5 pages of the drill you do?? (My HS program was widely recognized by PA football mavens as the worst in the state.) Those are two of the main separators to me. It certainly made my experiences at Westshore more enriching for those two reasons alone. I could probably think of more.

But the all-volunteer aspect, not run by school districts, and the fact the organization exists primarily to compete at a high level (Parades, outreach still done but secondary) with no fiddling and interference from mostly ignorant school admins and school boards (there are some exceptions) are what really differ the forms.

Yeah, one has woodwinds, the other doesn't. There are some other points I could parse out more carefully but those could be more arguable.

[BigW]

Mike, on a slight tangent: I think you've been a judge in the scholastic arena, right? If a high school band didn't have woodwinds--as is true of a handful of high school bands in Ohio, including at least one which competes--would you score them lower than a band of equivalent design and performance levels which did have woodwinds, on that basis? (For that matter, while it's far less likely, what about a band without brass?)

Interesting hypothetical. I'm sure arguments could be made on both sides of that coin. Fortunately, competitors do something to drop the ball or separate themselves from the others in musicality, quality, or musical content where worrying about instrumentation doesn't come into play.

[posaun1]

You really don't find it the least bit odd that people want standards to be set by kids' desires? Really?

(And I didn't say that it was wrong to like modern things. I said it was wrong to like them just because they are modern. Big difference.)

The standards aren't being set by the students. They are being set by the band directors that teach the students who choose to join DCI or DCA. Those programs generally have technology involved in their music programs. Darn those directors for trying to engage their students with modern instrumentation which may be useful to the student beyond their high school years. DCA and DCI is relying upon these programs for its future. That's where the musicians are coming from. Parents aren't putting a kid with no training into a drum corps situation in order to try and keep that kid off the streets and out of trouble. Those days are gone.

[posaun1]

The real differences between both Band and corps are these-

Very few privately owned or operated marching bands in the US for youth. Most are run under school auspices. Lehighton, PA had some private organization, I don't know if they still do. Burlington, Ontario has a town band for youth, some small ones run under various civic organizations in Quebec.

The other real difference that separates, and is the big selling point for many kids wanting to perform in DCI or DCA is this-- Do you want to be part of an organization where you don't have kids in it that are only there because Mommy and Daddy make them participate? Do you want to be where people want to be there and be excellent, and aren't there because they can get free trips to the football games with great seats or hang with their friends? Where you're not thought of as some kind of appendage to the football program and have to sit though crappy football games and still get made fun of by the jocks who don't have enough brain cells to learn the first 5 pages of the drill you do?? (My HS program was widely recognized by PA football mavens as the worst in the state.) Those are two of the main separators to me. It certainly made my experiences at Westshore more enriching for those two reasons alone. I could probably think of more.

But the all-volunteer aspect, not run by school districts, and the fact the organization exists primarily to compete at a high level (Parades, outreach still done but secondary) with no fiddling and interference from mostly ignorant school admins and school boards (there are some exceptions) are what really differ the forms.

Yeah, one has woodwinds, the other doesn't. There are some other points I could parse out more carefully but those could be more arguable.

Lehighton still has a community band program which provides lessons for any student in the area free of charge.

[hairbear]

Trampolines in Drum Corps. Didn't somebody do that already? LOL!

Edited December 10, 2014 by hairbear

[N.E. Brigand]

Trampolines in Drum Corps. Didn't somebody do that already? LOL!

Sure. Bands too. One group at BoA Grand Nationals this year (I think it was Father Ryan H.S. from TN) had a bunch of small trampolines set between closely space ramps, so that members could either jump over the gap between the ramps, or jump down from one ramp to the trampoline and then bounce up to the other ramp.

[N.E. Brigand]

The standards aren't being set by the students.

Really? Because several people in this thread, arguing in favor of allowing synthesizers, have said that they are necessary to attract younger members, who believe that corps must have synthesizers to be good (even though almost none of them will be performing on the synthesizer). That sure sounds like setting standards to match the students' tastes to me. If you're saying that high school band directors are telling students that a musical ensemble must have a synthesizer to be good, then shame on them.

[MikeD]

You are 100% right. "WE" all back in the day didn't want the stigma marching band had and to a smaller degree today still has. YES we did things which might have been in our eyes cooler but nonetheless still MB. Marching around a football field, playing some peppy little or patriotic tunes, sparkle buttons on our uniforms and of course feathers on our heads. HMMMMM..lol

I remember my high school FULL of drum corps people and 1 marched in band. Today very different.

Watch to DCI for the next big thing and it wont be the usual 10 years for DCA to adapt. IMO I think with DCA younger and younger those changes will happen faster than the past.

Yup. Agree. Our band's pit instructor, about 23-24 years old...was in the Bucs pit...and she was the oldest member, she told me!!!

[MikeD]

Mike ... based on the current size of DCA and DCI corps allowed on the field (is it somewhere between 128 - 150?), what would be your ideal configuration for # of brass (sop, mid, bari, bass) and ww (pic, clari, sax, etc.)? Do you feel the size of perc and cg sections suffer or remain the same?

Thanks,

Andy

My preference is for an "anything goes" division, including marching as many as they wish. However...to come up with 128 and 150 sizes, these would work for me

picc 2 2

flute 8 12

clarinet 10 12

alto 6 8

tenor 2 4

bari 4 6

tpt 12 16

mello 6 8

tbn/bari 10 12

tuba 8 10

snare 6 6

tenor 4 4

bass 5 5

pit 12 12

cg 32 32

dm 1 1

total 128 150

Edited December 11, 2014 by MikeD

[MikeD]

Mike, on a slight tangent: I think you've been a judge in the scholastic arena, right? If a high school band didn't have woodwinds--as is true of a handful of high school bands in Ohio, including at least one which competes--would you score them lower than a band of equivalent design and performance levels which did have woodwinds, on that basis? (For that matter, while it's far less likely, what about a band without brass?)

IMO a judge should evaluate what is presented, not what they wish were presented. If a band has WW, but the charts and drill are written so that their contribution is minimized...like writing brass-doubled parts for most of the show, and/or using the WW to just fill out forms at the edges or in the back primarily, then that would impact their score with me. If they do not have them, then it would not impact how I judge that band.

When I was judging a lot, what I used to do is actually count the instruments, primarily in the smaller size classes, to get an idea of what I might expect to hear...and I would judge based on that. I'd write the instrument counts down on the sheets as a note to myself, actually. If they marched two clarinets, I would not expect to hear much clarinet sound, for instance.

A long-winded way to say no, the mere presence or lack of particular instrument voices in and of itself would not impact my score...they use made of what they have is the key driver.

Now...if the circuit had placed requirements on the sheets to judge differently then the above, then of course I would have to judge based on the stated criteria.