"What if.." Idea for corps auditions

[CrownBariDad]

to help get the word out for kids who don't make corps, the corps need to share info with cuts about other corps, be it local to that corps, or local to the kids area.

Yes! Both my kids got started in drum corps due to cut lists being sent to other corps: Cavies to Racine and Crown to Spirit. Luckily, they were happy with just being able to march somewhere that first year.

[Eleran]

Yes! Both my kids got started in drum corps due to cut lists being sent to other corps: Cavies to Racine and Crown to Spirit. Luckily, they were happy with just being able to march somewhere that first year.

And that's the sort of thing I think would be helped by a unified audition/combine process. Where some of the mid- and lower- corps would get access to the entire pool of potential DCI players, and could reach directly out to the many potential marchers at the appropriate level that might not have thought to come to them, but who might welcome the opportunity once the corps find them. While there certainly will always be the "Corps X or nothing for me" marchers, I bet a lot of others would welcome the opportunity to march with Corps Y, but either they didn't know enough to go there on their own, or they were too tied into Corps X's camps to be able to pursue Corps Y as well.

[xandandl]

Let us all be honest.....(and I don't mean that anyone is being dishonest.)

My experience as one who has had input into the "fit" of the auditionee into the corps/section with several corps including several top 6 teaches me this:

some corps do drag out audition-before-contract to see 1) was first impression authentic or a fluke; one notable corps does not "cut", does make recommendations, gives a second chance audition if requested. Said corps also networks for said auditionees if better fit felt to be elsewhere. Ironically, this corps gets a lot of flack on DCP. But another DCP darling doesn't make either recommendations or network. Go figure.

2)some instructors drag out the audition process in the hope that better talent will later come through the door. This to me is unfair to auditionee and unfair to corps. A trumpet diva who plays in the heavens may be the worst personality to tour with here on earth. More than instructor's rep and endorsement possibilities are at stake.

I dislike putting the audition process like the fraternity (meatlocker) approach. I agree with Guardling. This is not a speed dating website activity; it's a farm with seeds, watering, sprouts, manure, and much hoeing along the entire season, winter, spring and summer.

Edited January 7, 2015 by xandandl

[perc2100]

Let us all be honest.....(and I don't mean that anyone is being dishonest.)

My experience as one who has had input into the "fit" of the auditionee into the corps/section with several corps including several top 6 teaches me this:

some corps do drag out audition-before-contract to see 1) was first impression authentic or a fluke; one notable corps does not "cut", does make recommendations, gives a second chance audition if requested. Said corps also networks for said auditionees if better fit felt to be elsewhere. Ironically, this corps gets a lot of flack on DCP. But another DCP darling doesn't make either recommendations or network. Go figure.

2)some instructors drag out the audition process in the hope that better talent will later come through the door. This to me is unfair to auditionee and unfair to corps. A trumpet diva who plays in the heavens may be the worst personality to tour with here on earth. More than instructor's rep and endorsement possibilities are at stake.

I dislike putting the audition process like the fraternity (meatlocker) approach. I agree with Guardling. This is not a speed dating website activity; it's a farm with seeds, watering, sprouts, manure, and much hoeing along the entire season, winter, spring and summer.

Also, (and I know this happened for a fact at least with a few Finalist corps in the mid/late 90s/early 00s)

3) to continue to collect "cap fees" from members and/or to give a kid on the bubble some experience for next year.

I was never involved with a group that did that, but knew instructors who were explicitly told by directors to do this, i.e. "we could use the extra money so be generous with callbacks"

[Pete Freedman]

I think teachers in general resist the idea of applying a simple metric even to knowledge, let alone skills. In that sense this is part of a larger education issue bitterly fought today.

Still, while you can't apply a number to a horn player, drummer or guard member, you can find simple metrics that correlate with skills in ways every student of that art knows, and suggest very approximate guidelines for acceptance at the lowest tier, top 25, top 12, top 3 level in each area.

In guard, for example (about which I will now display just how little I know) people often praise a rifle toss consisting of x number of spins. So there's a metric that correlates with guard skill.

How often to top 12 DCI guards accept guard members who can reliably catch at most a 3? Not often? So what's the number of spins that you think (dear reader, especially if you are a guard instructor) someone should have a slight chance, as opposed to a good chance, of getting in, assuming their other skills and attitude are at approximately the same level?

As long as there is some metric that people tend to associate with talent and skill, it can be very rough;y associated with top 3, top 12, top 25. That's not unreasonable. And that would help people narrow their target corps selection, which would be good.

[corpsband]

No, I like the concept, and mentioned the idea of a DCI-wide audition combine in another thread.

Some players won't know they won't make the cut with their corps-of-choice until January, and they quite possibly feel it's too late to start up with another corps only in February, or maybe they don't make the cut at their top-5 choice, and their top-15 second-choice is already filled up, and they don't think playing for a bottom-10 corps is worthwhile.

It would be great (but of course highly unlikely) if:

• all corps would list their proposed camp/residency dates, locations, seasonal costs and desired player numbers
• players would upload an audition video of music selections agreed upon and designated by DCI, along with sortable data entries for age, school, corps experience, band experience, etc.
• the players, having reviewed corps' provided date/location/cost information, would also indicate their desired corps, by preference (with heavy emphasis on including fall-back selections)
• the corps would then review audition videos, and can limit their choices by filtering based upon age, experience, etc.
• the corps would then extend offers for players to attend their first camp, but would be limited to having no more than 150% of any proposed section (ie. - if they are going to march 12 tubas, then can not have more than 18 at camp)
• All players attending a camp must be given an acceptance or rejection within one week following the camp
• All players receiving an offer must accept or reject within one week following receipt of offer
• Corps can then invite players to their second camp, but would be limited to having at the camp (a) any players who accepted offers, and (b) no more than 200% of the open and available spots remaining (i.e. if 9 tubas accepted, then can have up to 6 at the second camp to compete for the final 3 spots)
• Repeat offer/acceptance procedure above

Tweak as needed.

Love the idea of combined auditions. Made a proposal of my own some time ago where DCI actually runs the auditions.

But the rest of this list of rules and restrictions would torpedo the concept. Why do you need them?

[Eleran]

Love the idea of combined auditions. Made a proposal of my own some time ago where DCI actually runs the auditions.

But the rest of this list of rules and restrictions would torpedo the concept. Why do you need them?

Well, if you had combined physical auditions, then you really wouldn't need the rest quite so much. But if that proved logistically impossible (using instead the proposed database of video auditions), then individual corps camps from November to January would still be the norm, and the other ideas I posted would regulate those camps to avoid some of the current problems mentioned above, and more quickly move players to the appropriate corps.

As much as I like the idea of a combined physical audition - is it feasible? All marchers who choose their corps based upon proximity would now be forced to travel to one central location, possibly at significantly more cost to them. I don't know if any place could easily be found that would handle the sleeping and feeding of so many potential marchers - how many people generally try out for DCI each season across the board? If they dispersed groups to satellite locations for sleeping, that would cut into playing time. I suppose they could do separate audition locations for different sections (all trumpets to Indianapolis on weekend 1; all tubas to Memphis on weekend 2; etc.) if necessary to bring the size back down to manageable amounts, but that would greatly increase the cost and time of the caption heads, etc., that might need to attend all of them. i don't know if I have answers to those problems.

I would love to keep brainstorming about a way for DCI to get involved with, and manage, the audition process to better serve ALL the corps, increasing the likelihood that marchers smoothly transition from one corps to another, if their target corps doesn't want them. I think too many people slip through the large cracks that separate one corps from the next.

[garfield]

I think teachers in general resist the idea of applying a simple metric even to knowledge, let alone skills. In that sense this is part of a larger education issue bitterly fought today.

Still, while you can't apply a number to a horn player, drummer or guard member, you can find simple metrics that correlate with skills in ways every student of that art knows, and suggest very approximate guidelines for acceptance at the lowest tier, top 25, top 12, top 3 level in each area.

In guard, for example (about which I will now display just how little I know) people often praise a rifle toss consisting of x number of spins. So there's a metric that correlates with guard skill.

How often to top 12 DCI guards accept guard members who can reliably catch at most a 3? Not often? So what's the number of spins that you think (dear reader, especially if you are a guard instructor) someone should have a slight chance, as opposed to a good chance, of getting in, assuming their other skills and attitude are at approximately the same level?

As long as there is some metric that people tend to associate with talent and skill, it can be very rough;y associated with top 3, top 12, top 25. That's not unreasonable. And that would help people narrow their target corps selection, which would be good.

Love that disclaimer and may steal that line to use myself.

It's interesting that I had this discussion with the _kid just last night when talking about his choices for tryouts next fall. He's at a great advantage than most in that he's been watching drum corps since he sat on my lap at finals at 9 months old. He knows styles, histories, reps, and staffs. He's been very deliberate in his process of choosing where to audition and, we think, he's made a very rational choice based on his experience and talent. I wonder how many kids have the same level of information about all the corps and use such a sound and honest analysis, and how many make their choice based on infatuation or "fan love". Many of those choices are not well-founded. As a result, a seeming mismatch could easily require a second or third call-back.

I've also found that talent alone is not a good determinant. The _kid's hands were definitely ready to go last fall, but his ability to live the life on the road was not. Having a metric for talent would be easy but you can only guess if a kid is ready to live on the road.

[garfield]

Well, if you had combined physical auditions, then you really wouldn't need the rest quite so much. But if that proved logistically impossible (using instead the proposed database of video auditions), then individual corps camps from November to January would still be the norm, and the other ideas I posted would regulate those camps to avoid some of the current problems mentioned above, and more quickly move players to the appropriate corps.

As much as I like the idea of a combined physical audition - is it feasible? All marchers who choose their corps based upon proximity would now be forced to travel to one central location, possibly at significantly more cost to them. I don't know if any place could easily be found that would handle the sleeping and feeding of so many potential marchers - how many people generally try out for DCI each season across the board? If they dispersed groups to satellite locations for sleeping, that would cut into playing time. I suppose they could do separate audition locations for different sections (all trumpets to Indianapolis on weekend 1; all tubas to Memphis on weekend 2; etc.) if necessary to bring the size back down to manageable amounts, but that would greatly increase the cost and time of the caption heads, etc., that might need to attend all of them. i don't know if I have answers to those problems.

I would love to keep brainstorming about a way for DCI to get involved with, and manage, the audition process to better serve ALL the corps, increasing the likelihood that marchers smoothly transition from one corps to another, if their target corps doesn't want them. I think too many people slip through the large cracks that separate one corps from the next.

For years I've envisioned (although never really studied) a mass camp - all corps and all auctioneers - in LOS at one time.

If you want to change the financial dynamics of drum corps, have open tryouts (playing and marching tryouts) in front of all corps staffs, then let the auditionee choose which offer he's willing to accept. If a corps is farther away and costs more, the corps may be willing to "pay more" (lower tuition, cover travel costs to camps, etc) to get the talent.

I really like the idea of central mass auditions if it benefits the kids and not, necessarily, the corps (which I believe it would in the long-run).

[GUARDLING]

For years I've envisioned (although never really studied) a mass camp - all corps and all auctioneers - in LOS at one time.

If you want to change the financial dynamics of drum corps, have open tryouts (playing and marching tryouts) in front of all corps staffs, then let the auditionee choose which offer he's willing to accept. If a corps is farther away and costs more, the corps may be willing to "pay more" (lower tuition, cover travel costs to camps, etc) to get the talent.

I really like the idea of central mass auditions if it benefits the kids and not, necessarily, the corps (which I believe it would in the long-run).

ive done mass clinics and they do not benefit the kids at all. No personal attention, hardly a discussion, the weak look weaker and the strong everyone gravitates to, also the fact that different corps look for very different things. On the surface it does seem like a great idea. Being as close as I have been to the process it is way more than saving a few bucks up front. IMO in the long run if done in mass the potential member gains a few bucks in the small picture but loses alot in the bigger picture.

Now does any system work for ALL? Of course not, we do the best we can.