actucker Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I don't think any corps cuts more vets than another. That said, the general rule is that the devil you know is better than the devils you don't know, which is why vets don't get cut particularly often. I'm assuming that the OP is a vet of a corps and got cut this weekend. I'm also assuming that he did something to get himself cut. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I don't think any corps cuts more vets than another. That said, the general rule is that the devil you know is better than the devils you don't know, which is why vets don't get cut particularly often. I'm assuming that the OP is a vet of a corps and got cut this weekend. I'm also assuming that he did something to get himself cut. My experience has been ( and Ive done many auditions ) A vet is very well aware of their shortcomings. You can bet whatever an issue might be it was addressed and discussed the previous year. If there is any indication that a newbie may take a vets spot ( as in many auditioning )and especially if this is just about talent the vet was talked to and long before auditions given a heads up as well as the benefit of the doubt UNTIL AUDITIONS! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brassboy62 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) I don’t know what percentages of vets get cut, but they do have a good idea what they are getting with a veteran. When I marched, there was a trumpet player that caused lots of conflict on and off the field. He played great and marched very well, but did not get along with the other members or the staff. He even had a physical confutation with one of the cooking volunteers. He was allowed to audition the next year, but was not asked back. The brass staff was willing to take him back, but the support staff intervened. In the six years that I marched, I don’t know of any other veteran that wasn’t allowed to return. If you worked hard and pulled your weight, I would think that you would have a better chance. It would be interesting to hear from other vets that got cut, trying out for the next year, and why. Edited January 13, 2015 by brassboy62 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummer5485 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Had AT LEAST 1-2 vets cut every year I marched. If you didn't show up ready to play, you didn't make it. No one was guaranteed a spot. This made those that wanted to be there work harder every year. Didn't seem to affect us negatively during my time... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Had AT LEAST 1-2 vets cut every year I marched. If you didn't show up ready to play, you didn't make it. No one was guaranteed a spot. This made those that wanted to be there work harder every year. Didn't seem to affect us negatively during my time... Still it looks like a fairly small percentage of them, yes? And of those, from your recollection would you think it might have been attitude/personal issues rather than the feeling they couldn't hack the overall program? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummer5485 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 The year after I aged out we had a vet get cut because he couldn't hang. 2 years in the corps and it was his ageout that year I believe. No it didn't happen a lot, but it did happen. It was just understood that if you wanted a spot you had to bring and 99% of our members did every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabMaster Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I went back and forth on the vet cutting thing for a while and here is where I landed and I think it is reasonable and fair. And at the very least there should be fairness. Should/could a vet get cut? Yes. Is the org looking for quality and can it improve with a better MM taking the spot? Is not cutting a deficient vet, unfair to a new MM trying out, that may deserve the spot? Yes it's unfair. Cut away, but not instantly at first re-audition. I believe the vet is owed a second chance. They deserve to know what the reason is that they are on the bubble and given the opportunity to remedy the deficiency. The org deserves to know if there were mitigating circumstances that put the vet in the situation he/she is in. In the business world you don't typically fire someone without cause until afetr some coaching and warnings given. I have seen written in some of these responses, that maybe a vet had more of a personality clash or similar issue. If that's the case, didn't anyone ever mention that to them vet as being a deal breaker or maker, when the vet auditioned again? I would hope someone on staff would have made mention that participation the next season hinged on an attitude/behavior change. Just my .02. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
critter Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 It's also very likely that they were cut for other reasons than playing or marching ability. In fact, I'd almost bet on it. Sometimes people age out before they actually age out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) I went back and forth on the vet cutting thing for a while and here is where I landed and I think it is reasonable and fair. And at the very least there should be fairness. Should/could a vet get cut? Yes. Is the org looking for quality and can it improve with a better MM taking the spot? Is not cutting a deficient vet, unfair to a new MM trying out, that may deserve the spot? Yes it's unfair. Cut away, but not instantly at first re-audition. I believe the vet is owed a second chance. They deserve to know what the reason is that they are on the bubble and given the opportunity to remedy the deficiency. The org deserves to know if there were mitigating circumstances that put the vet in the situation he/she is in. In the business world you don't typically fire someone without cause until afetr some coaching and warnings given. I have seen written in some of these responses, that maybe a vet had more of a personality clash or similar issue. If that's the case, didn't anyone ever mention that to them vet as being a deal breaker or maker, when the vet auditioned again? I would hope someone on staff would have made mention that participation the next season hinged on an attitude/behavior change. Just my .02. All legitimate points, LabMaster. It makes me wonder: if there exists a current veteran who is in "some" ways a positive contributor to the organization, but at the same time is also known as being "problematic" in other ways, isn't it the Corps' place to pull that member aside at the completion of the season and pose the following questions: 1) "As far as you know, do you intend to return next year?" If the answer is "no," then a general and well-earned "thank you for your tremendous service to our Organization" may be stated, and the matter settled (and all the while resisting to let even the slightest facial feature to convey "And don't let the door hit you in the a** on the way out."). If the answer is an "I'm not sure, but probably yes." then the follow-up should or could be; 2) "There is an area (or are areas) which is causing us some concern. Please think on this over the winter, and come back in an improved mindset/attitude/level for next year. Please know that we are appreciative of your past contributions to our organization, and would like to consider you a continuing part of our organization; however, we would also like to see some improvement in this (these) area(s)." It does not need to be a major discussion. However, the Corps is being what I would call "fair yet firm." A sort of "pre-exit exit interview," as it were. And only undertaken for those veterans who have devoted their time and energies to the organization, yet present one or more difficulties which need to be addressed. In matters such as this (and from what I am reading throughout this thread, this doesn't seem to be a large-scale problem across the board of DCI corps), this way of handling "prized yet problematic members" would seem to be, at least to me, a fair way to address such problems. In this way, it does not become a surprise to the vet, and the Corps can proceed with fairness at the time of the next season's selections. In an age where political correctness trumps all, I don't think this would be too much to ask of the organization which has benefited from the money, energy, and services of this individual. At any rate, I feel that this should take place at the conclusion of the present season...not put off until the following season's audition period. But I think we're saying the same thing...just with a slightly different timing. Would this level of respect have been offered 30, 40, or 50 years ago? Maybe...and maybe not. But...different age, different expectations, different practices. I am the very worst "authoritarian" practitioner that has ever existed. But I've had to change my ways as well. Edited: Please allow me to add that I have, sadly and to my great regret, never marched at anywhere near the elite level of competition to which this entire site is devoted (a fact which, in fact, raises issues of whether I even have a "right" to speak on the issue). That being said, I would like to believe (and as corny as it may sound, "with every fiber of my being") that such problems are already addressed in this way throughout the competitive Drum Corp World. Be that as it may...in reading the many posts on this thread, apparently it isn't. Edited January 15, 2015 by HornTeacher 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) To add to that, also sometimes certain vets are prima donnas who have a holier-than-though type attitude and think they're above high standards. They don't put in sufficient work, maybe are ticks on the field who complain about not getting tons of sleep, or getting sick: they complain about sun burn and receiving criticism, and other things that practically everyone who's marching in their corps + everyone who's ever marched in ANY corps goes through. OK - understood. Why then isn't the "Vet" let go during the season when it is apparent that they are causing issues either with the staff of the other marching members? Is it to avoid the hole in the drill? Edit: The questions I asked are not pointed at perc2100. I think he has raised some good issues so they are for the people reading the forum who might be able to respond. Edited January 15, 2015 by Lincoln Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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