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Agogobell28

Arrangements

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IMO M. Klesch is always very respectful of the original. Probably the least "over-arranged" material in DCI every single year he's been creating arrangements.

True... maybe it's because he might be one of the oldest WC arrangers still working in WC (i.e. not age-wise, but length of time working. He was 23 years old when he arranged Garfield 1985 [WOW]). The newer arrangers came in later than him (and Boerma).

Edited by Agogobell28

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True... maybe it's because he might be one of the oldest WC arrangers still working in WC (i.e. not age-wise, but length of time working. He was 23 years old when he arranged Garfield 1985 [WOW]). The newer arrangers came in later than him (and Boerma).

thats only 53...lol..most of the more successful DCI, DCA, WGI people beat that age and going strong..lol...musically though maybe youre right.

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Now I'm going to show my ignorance by disagreeing with an assumption most of you are making. I'm an outsider, so I'm probably wrong, but I need someone to explain why I'm wrong. Here goes:

The idea that shows are "visually driven" today and feature "WGI pacing" is a myth. It just appears that way.

What is in fact happening is that the music education people in DCI - notably music caption heads and music judges - have decided (many years ago really) that the faster pace is better educationally, and so arrangers are instructed to arrange brass and percussion with constant change-ups in both technique and mood.

The visual people come in later and create drill and visuals to match the "music teacher pacing" of the arrangements, then they get blamed on DCP for the pacing. :tounge2:

This is not to say that visual design people don't sit in on early meetings and throw out ideas for drill, effects and so on, but that by itself wouldn't force arrangers to pace things a certain way UNLESS the visual designers actually chart some kind of bar-by-bar description of the visuals before arrangement is done. Are you guys saying that's the norm today?

Phantom is playing at least six pieces in 10-11.5 minutes this summer. Were those pieces chosen by the visual designer? I think music people still make music choices for drum corps. Visual designers are following along with pacing that matches the music, that's all.

I also think its easier to blame visual people with "problems in DCI" than to lay the blame at the feet of music teachers, who have much more gravitas in the activity and whose decisions are much harder to dismiss.

Now, am I wrong about this? If so, why?

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Agreed and that's why BD, Cadets and Crown will probably be battling it out all season baring a Cadets design blunder or a Crown percussion over hype.

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Pete,

I like your theory very much. Makes sense to me. Any time you have composers/designers surrounded by overly talented 'soldiers,' to display their vision, imaginations can run wild. For some, that translates into doing something so unique, so over-the-top, and reflective of their personal genius. This can take the form of stuffing too many notes into a small space, taking something successfully designed to flow smoothly, but coughing it out in fits to establish a new mark of achievement. The visual staff goes to work next in laying out the physical presentation for the public.

Sure, it all comes together. But, for both the chef and the diner?

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Agreed and that's why BD, Cadets and Crown will probably be battling it out all season baring a Cadets design blunder or a Crown percussion over hype.

Did you mean "baring" or "barring"? Although, within the context of the sentence, it could be argued that either might be appropriate...

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The visual people come in later and create drill and visuals to match the "music teacher pacing" of the arrangements, then they get blamed on DCP for the pacing. :tounge2:

This may/may not be true, but didn't the Cavies M. Gaines write the drill first (during their early 21st century run), then the "original composition" music was added?

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Agreed and that's why BD, Cadets and Crown will probably be battling it out all season baring a Cadets design blunder or a Crown percussion over hype.

To be clear, my statement about the Crown perc was purely hypothetical. It's fun to think about it. But, even as an admitted Crown honk, I think I'll have to wait and see what happens on the field this summer. There are a lot of good reasons to feel good about things but that caption has dug quite a hole from which it has to extricate itself.

Edited by corpsband

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True... maybe it's because he might be one of the oldest WC arrangers still working in WC (i.e. not age-wise, but length of time working. He was 23 years old when he arranged Garfield 1985 [WOW]). The newer arrangers came in later than him (and Boerma).

Mr. Will Pitts who is arranging for Spirit this year aged out of Phantom in 2008. You do the math.

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Now I'm going to show my ignorance by disagreeing with an assumption most of you are making. I'm an outsider, so I'm probably wrong, but I need someone to explain why I'm wrong. Here goes:

The idea that shows are "visually driven" today and feature "WGI pacing" is a myth. It just appears that way.

What is in fact happening is that the music education people in DCI - notably music caption heads and music judges - have decided (many years ago really) that the faster pace is better educationally, and so arrangers are instructed to arrange brass and percussion with constant change-ups in both technique and mood.

The visual people come in later and create drill and visuals to match the "music teacher pacing" of the arrangements, then they get blamed on DCP for the pacing. :tounge2:

This is not to say that visual design people don't sit in on early meetings and throw out ideas for drill, effects and so on, but that by itself wouldn't force arrangers to pace things a certain way UNLESS the visual designers actually chart some kind of bar-by-bar description of the visuals before arrangement is done. Are you guys saying that's the norm today?

Phantom is playing at least six pieces in 10-11.5 minutes this summer. Were those pieces chosen by the visual designer? I think music people still make music choices for drum corps. Visual designers are following along with pacing that matches the music, that's all.

I also think its easier to blame visual people with "problems in DCI" than to lay the blame at the feet of music teachers, who have much more gravitas in the activity and whose decisions are much harder to dismiss.

Now, am I wrong about this? If so, why?

I'm fairly certain this is a bit mistaken. Often a "show coordinator," music arrangers, and visual designers have pre-season meetings to map out a show. It is VERY common for visual phrases to take precedent of music phrases, and I know with certainty there have been times when a visual designer trumps music arrangers when it comes to shortening or lengthening a piece because of visual design. What you describe may be the case in some corps, but I know this is not accurate with at least some of the most successful corps. Meaning, music designers don't pick what they think would make a cool show and then after everything is written the the visual designer gets to work: that hasn't been the case in quite some time, and this is very evident when you see how integrated visual design is with music design. It is very common for arrangers & vis. designers to "storyboard" their show, even before the downbeat of any music is written, in order to design the most cohesive marriage of visual & music.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming WGI or visual designers or whatever (I actually quite like DCI show designs now-a-days). While music is not chosen by a visual designer, corps' musical arrangements are curated in part by the visual designer to fit a specific visual design they have in mind. Of course, it depends on what a corps' strength is. I would suspect with a corps like Crown, where music is their obvious strength, the music arranger might have more pull than the visual designer. When Cavaliers were at their peak in the last decade, I suspect their visual designs took precedent over their music design

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