SCV 2015

[N.E. Brigand]

DCP over the years has been filled with umpteen threads about competitive inertia, how the first month of contest results usually mimic the placements from last August's finals, how particular judges as individuals seem to prefer certain styles of guard work, drumming approaches, and even the colors of uniform.

Bruckner8 would be so proud.

What, a judge who disdains the color blue???

Heh. That reminds me of a passage from J.R.R. Tolkien's essay, "On Fairy-stories":

"A real enthusiast for cricket is in the enchanted state: Secondary Belief. I, when I watch a match, am on the lower level. I can achieve (more or less) willing suspension of disbelief, when I am held there and supported by some other motive that will keep away boredom: for instance, a wild, heraldic, preference for dark blue rather than light. This suspension of disbelief may thus be a somewhat tired, shabby, or sentimental state of mind, and so lean to the 'adult.' I fancy it is often the state of adults in the presence of a fairy-story. They are held there and supported by sentiment (memories of childhood, or notions of what childhood ought to be like); they think they ought to like the tale. But if they really liked it, for itself, they would not have to suspend disbelief: they would believe—in this sense. "

[N.E. Brigand]

SCV has been IMO a snooze-fest for the past 3 years. Don't see them moving up until the design gets well out of the safe zone. (Which hopefully they do real soon now -- I *miss* the SCV that actually dared to be on the... wait for it.... vanguard of show design.) The only thing I've really enjoyed has been the drill writing.

I totally get that tastes will differ, but I would note that SCV had the highest fourth-place score ever in 2013. (For myself, I certainly preferred them to Blue Devils' 2013 show.)

And then Crown had the highest fifth-place score ever in 2014 (topping SCV 2009).

As for innovation, there were at lesat some unusual elements in SCV's 2013 design, like having the entire hornline play behind 50 separate placards on the back sideline, and then the wonderfully-staged flag tosses from unseen guard members that followed. And one possibly unprecedented element: has any corps ever done visual wordplay on the field before?

[N.E. Brigand]

Third and Twelfth are the only positions where a "tie" is pleasurable.

And I don't think there's ever been a tie for third; has there?

[skevinp]

I'm speaking in general, not specific to this threat. It happens every year.

And I'm speaking of what has really been happening this entire year in the 2015 Predictions thread. The last 10 predictions have the Cadets:

1st

1st

1st

2nd

1st

1st

1st

1st

1st

1st

2nd

Just looking therein, 9 have BD dropping, 7 have Coats dropping, 5 have SCV dropping, 4 have Crown dropping, and 0 have Cadets dropping.

.

Edited February 13, 2015 by skevinp

[spencerg98]

And I'm speaking of what has really been happening this entire year in the 2015 Predictions thread. The last 10 predictions have the Cadets:

1st

1st

1st

2nd

1st

1st

1st

1st

1st

1st

2nd

Just looking therein, 9 have BD dropping, 7 have Coats dropping, 5 have SCV dropping, 4 have Crown dropping, and 0 have Cadets dropping.

.

Cadets also have revealed more about their 2015 program than anyone else. We already have a basic picture of about what the Cadets are doing. Where as from the other four corps you mentioned we have only one musical selection from the Bluecoats. So the Cadets will tend to be predicted higher before we know what everyone else is doing.

[corpsband]

I totally get that tastes will differ, but I would note that SCV had the highest fourth-place score ever in 2013. (For myself, I certainly preferred them to Blue Devils' 2013 show.)

And then Crown had the highest fifth-place score ever in 2014 (topping SCV 2009).

As for innovation, there were at lesat some unusual elements in SCV's 2013 design, like having the entire hornline play behind 50 separate placards on the back sideline, and then the wonderfully-staged flag tosses from unseen guard members that followed. And one possibly unprecedented element: has any corps ever done visual wordplay on the field before?

"Highest score ever" stuff is IMO meaningless. Drum corps scores are not an absolutle measure of anything so comparing them outside of that single show instance is silly. And comparing them year to year is even sillier. I know -- we all pretend they're meaningful. But...they're not.

OTOH your point does highlight that the 2014 top 5 were all d##n good. So...there's that.

As for SCV... well i guess ill just agree that tastes vary.

Can we agree that retreads are mostly boring? Mostly? </newt>

[xandandl]

As for innovation, there were at least some unusual elements in SCV's 2013 design, , and then the wonderfully-staged flag tosses from unseen guard members that followed. And one possibly unprecedented element: has any corps ever done visual wordplay on the field before?

***

While I really liked the visual book in SCV 2013 complete with the guard surprises, it was not innovative.

I guess the N.E. does not stand for New England. SCV '13 guard borrowed a number of these tricks from early 27th, North Star (of the North Shore), and other shows of corps who competed in Greater Boston back in the '70's.

That this present millennium had not seen such tricks was novel but not first time innovation sez this ole timer.

Also go back to Cadets' show this century when they did a similar move of flashing flags across the backfield with each silk progressing a different hue of the rainbow. I will now have to review my videos to cite the season If you find it first, please post it.

The most imaginative move is when Pete Weber had SCV bunched as a map of France which he then rotated. It was wonderful for those who knew.

Edited February 13, 2015 by xandandl

[seen-it-all]

I'm speaking in general, not specific to this threat. It happens every year.

I think some people see what they want to see when it comes to these prediction threads. (Or they focus on the wrong things IMO) Especially those who are tied to one of the top corps. In the other thread, a Crown homer was commenting on how a whole series of posters routinely predicted Crown to finish in 6th or 7th every year, so predictable. As for the other hundred or so times people routinely predicted Crown winning or fininshing 2nd or 3rd, nobody focuses on that I guess. Much easier to focus on the handful of people who have them lower than where they usually finish and imply "isn't that prediction ridiculous??... how dare they??...don't they know who we ARE??"

I haven't gone back and looked, but I'd be interested to see where people predicted the 2014 Crown to finish at this time of year last year, fresh off their first DCI title. I wonder how many picked them to finish 4th or lower (in comparison to those who picked them to repeat or still medal), and I wonder how many people ridiculed those making those predictions (which later wound up coming true). Point is, while it's rare for BD to finish 4th or lower (hasn't happened since 2005), it has happened and it will happen again someday. Someday the Cadets will finish 6th (hasn't happened since 1991). I remember when it was unthinkable that the Madison Scouts would not make finals. And then it happened. IN MADISON.

When it comes to these predictions, it's all fun and games, not really meant to be taken so seriously, as I'm sure we all truly know deep down inside. And if you're a diehard fan of one of those corps who typically medals or is in a position to legitimately contend for a medal every year, be happy your corps has put themselves in the position to be so successful year in and year out. And don't worry. People will still flock to your warm-ups, rush your souvenir tables, buy all your merchandise, and forego entering the stadium when the show actually begins to watch the riff-raff perform when it's still daylight. You've already won the game at that point. Stop focusing on the few who aren't on board with full-on worship of your corps' greatness. They'll come around eventually, or they'll be mocked for being late to the party. And just remember: There are corps out there who can't get people to pay attention to any of the good things they're doing and would kill to be so good that someone predicting them to finish 4th or 5th as a BAD year would be a sign of accomplishment. (yeah, that last bit was all tongue firmly planted in cheek, but I think you get my point.) :silly:

[N.E. Brigand]

Can we agree that retreads are mostly boring? Mostly?

I'm not sure I agree. Certainly in the other arts, it's commonplace to revive older works, whether Shakespeare or Beethoven. There are two major summer theatre festivals a few hours' drive north of me that exist and thrive on presenting a classic repertoire. That said, comparisons naturally happen. I felt that SCV's 2014 "Scheherazade", while wonderfully executed, didn't quite have the excitement of their 2004 version, but that their 2013 "Les Miserables" equaled or surpassed what Cadets had done in 1989. (And immediately after SCV played in the 2013 Finals, I wrote on these forums that if ever a presumable fourth-place performance deserved a score of 97, that was it; an hour or so later, the judges almost agreed with me.) In neither case was the show a very close copy of its most-notable predecessor--far less so than, say, SCV '89 as compared to SCV '88. But it would be worth thinking about why, e.g., the Cleveland Orchestra can play the same work every few years, with each performance much more alike to another than any two drum corps productions are, and yet not be subject to the same complaints about boredom that would happen in drum corps.

[N.E. Brigand]

As for innovation, there were at least some unusual elements in SCV's 2013 design, , and then the wonderfully-staged flag tosses from unseen guard members that followed. And one possibly unprecedented element: has any corps ever done visual wordplay on the field before?

While I really liked the visual book in SCV 2013 complete with the guard surprises, it was not innovative. ... SCV '13 guard borrowed a number of these tricks from early 27th Lancers, North Star (of the North Shore), and other shows of corps who competed in Greater Boston back in the '70's. That this present millennium had not seen such tricks was novel but not first time innovation, sez this ole timer.

Also go back to Cadets' show this century when they did a similar move of flashing flags across the backfield with each silk progressing a different hue of the rainbow. I will now have to review my videos to cite the season If you find it first, please post it.

The most imaginative move is when Pete Weber had SCV bunched as a map of France which he then rotated. It was wonderful for those who knew

I had thought of Cadets 1998 with "Stonehenge", when, at about halfway through the show, the guard flashes three different sets of flags over the course of a few seconds along the back sideline and right end zone, but in my opinion, SCV borrows that from idea not so much with the move I described--which is different because (a) you can't see SCV's guard and (b) they're tossing to each other, not just spinning--as with the move closer to the end when SCV's guard flashes the set of enormous multicolored flags on the front sideline.

As for the other precursors you cite, are they on the Fan Network? (Or the Legacy DVD Collection, given how many shows have been (temporarily?) removed from the Fan Network?) I'll be delighted to see someone else doing what I described. There are certainly models for hiding the corps while they play--mostly by SCV themselves in the late 1980s and early 1990s (plus Phantom in 2010)--but the use of all those placards for that technique, and especially for the guard, was new to me.

And had someone really done wordplay like "VAN [guard]" on the field before?

I guess the N.E. does not stand for New England.

"At its head there rode a tall and evil shape, mounted upon a black horse, if horse it was; for it was huge and hideous, and its face was a frightful mask, more like a skull than a living head, and in the sockets of its eyes and in its nostrils there burned a flame. The rider was robed all in black, and black was his lofty helm; yet this was no Ringwraith but a living man. The Lieutenant of the Tower of Barad-dûr he was, and his name is remembered in no tale; for he himself had forgotten it, and he said: 'I am the Mouth of Sauron.' ....

'Is there any one in this rout with authority to treat with me?' he asked. 'Or indeed with wit to understand me? Not thou at least!' he mocked, turning to Aragorn with scorn. 'It needs more to make a king than a piece of elvish glass, or a rabble such as this. Why, any brigand of the hills can show as good a following!'

Aragorn said naught in answer, but he took the other's eye and held it, and for a moment they strove thus; but soon, though Aragorn did not stir nor move hand to weapon, the other quailed and gave back as if menaced with a blow. 'I am a herald and ambassador, and may not be assailed!' he cried.

'Where such laws hold,' said Gandalf, 'it is also the custom for ambassadors to use less insolence.'"