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Indiana's New Law


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I think this is an interesting statement - one which I do not entirely agree with.

There are benefits to media analysis but I also think there are also dangers to listening to only one media outlet which happens so often. I think to get the most objective analysis one should listen to what multiple outlets are saying and then decide for themselves.

Great point, Lincoln. I've learned (from much experience) to apply this to weather forecasts as well.

Edited by HornTeacher
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Everyone should be accepted. Religious, Black, White, Gay, Straight, Male, Female, etc. Can you imagine living in a world where people just lived THEIR lives?

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Everyone should be accepted. Religious, Black, White, Gay, Straight, Male, Female, etc. Can you imagine living in a world where people just lived THEIR lives?

:babies::babies::babies::babies::babies::babies::babies:

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Yes, but those examples are anecdotal and rare. You can't force people not to be bigoted, and frankly I am appalled that anyone would want to try (especially those who preach tolerance as their foundational mantra). This nation was founded on freedom of conscience and belief, including (and especially) religious belief. You don't have to like or support someone else's belief. I will stand besides you day and night in defending your right to speak out against bigoted beliefs ... including bigoted religious beliefs. But I have a huge problem when people start wanting the government to use its power to force people to act in violation of their sincerely held beliefs, even their bigoted beliefs, in the absence of a serious threat of harm to others. That is completely antithetical to the principles this nation was founded on. If someone wants to refuse to serve me a meal because I am gay, then I will say "good riddance" and find someone else who will. But I don't believe it is my right to force anyone to serve me in violation of their sincerely held beliefs.

What I am saying if someone wants to run their business by their beliefs then they should let the customers know that they are not welcome. If someone feels that strongly about their beliefs then they should be strong enough to let those beliefs be known even if it costs them money. Pretty weak beliefs to basically say "I don't believe in serving gay people .... but if I don't know if they are gay then it is OK". And let's open it up the whole way, if it is against someones religious belief to be around or serve other races, creeds, nationalities, handicapped, whatever then that should be allowed and posted too so the customers know. I have HC family members and if a business owner thinks they are evil and God is cursing them via the handicap I'd like to know so we don't patronize their place. And yes we have had that "anyone in a wheelchair must have displeased God" thrown in our faces.

Edit: Misunderstanding worked out.. no harm....

Edited by JimF-LowBari
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If you are saying I think people should be forced to serve gay or whoever against their will or belief you are SADLY mistaken and I totally RESENT it.

What I am saying if someone wants to run their business by their beliefs then they should let the customers know that they are not welcome. If someone feels that strongly about their beliefs then they should be strong enough to let those beliefs be known even if it costs them money. Pretty weak beliefs to basically say "I don't believe in serving gay people .... but if I don't know if they are gay then it is OK".

Now if you are saying I think people should be forced against their will, please explain how you got that mistaken idea and retract it. First ### ##### time I have EVER been called intolerant by anyone.....

While I see what you are saying, Jim, I must respectfully disagree with a basic point which you used (and of which I placed in bold print above).

When one chooses to conduct their business, it is of my belief that they are also choosing "to serve." Not to a specific clientele...not to those who happen to be of the same color, sexual orientation, or national origin as themselves...but to serve. If they choose to serve only those whom they will accept into their establishment, and from those whom they will accept recompense for their service...then let them dictate it as so in the name of their establishment..."Bob's Caucasian-Only, Heterosexual-Only, Christian-Only Bar and Grill." If they are not willing to do so...to put their mind-set out there for the public to recognize...then they are doing little more than to hoodwink a general public which consists of a multi-variable population.

I don't agree with you one whit on this. However...as pointed out earlier so succinctly by another poster...while I disagree with you most whole-heartedly, I would stand beside you and with you in defense of your right to express it. We just disagree, that's all.

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But HT the whole point of this and other laws is to allow the owners to choose who they will serve based on religious beliefs

So to go to both extremes, we either say everyone will be served even if the owner doesn't like it (negating this law). Or we open the law up to all groups can be excluded and not just homosexuals.

And hoodwinked is a GREAT way to put my feelings..... and only way I can think of not to be hoodwinked is signs or name saying that not all are welcome. If I saw a sign like this I wouldn't go in, and be happier that I didn't give money to someone with exclusive beliefs (especially that HC one).

PS the bolding didn't come thru so might be missing a key point....

And I do enjoy talking to people I disagree with, just too boring hearing "I agree" all the time...

Edited by JimF-LowBari
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Everyone should be accepted. Religious, Black, White, Gay, Straight, Male, Female, etc. Can you imagine living in a world where people just lived THEIR lives?

Yes but simplistic. What happens when you living your life bumps into me living my life? When our desires conflict?

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If you are saying I think people should be forced to serve gay or whoever against their will or belief you are SADLY mistaken and I totally RESENT it.

What I am saying if someone wants to run their business by their beliefs then they should let the customers know that they are not welcome. If someone feels that strongly about their beliefs then they should be strong enough to let those beliefs be known even if it costs them money. Pretty weak beliefs to basically say "I don't believe in serving gay people .... but if I don't know if they are gay then it is OK". And let's open it up the whole way, if it is against someones religious belief to be around or serve other races, creeds, nationalities, handicapped, whatever then that should be allowed and posted too so the customers know. I have HC family members and if a business owner thinks they are evil and God is cursing them via the handicap I'd like to know so we don't patronize their place. And yes we have had that "anyone in a wheelchair must have displeased God" thrown in our faces.

Now if you are saying I think people should be forced against their will, please explain how you got that mistaken idea and retract it. First ### ##### time I have EVER been called intolerant by anyone.....

I didn't mean to suggest that you thought anything. Sorry if you took offense.

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Where did this notion of "I should be able to do whatever I feel like doing and you should celebrate it" come from? It's a very self-centered approach to life. IMO well all have rights AND responsibilities.

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