2014 Use of Electronics

[perc2100]

I see your point, but the fact that the brass can (and do often) change their facings and the speakers (which are also directional) do not does present a separate set of challenges not often faced be even professional sound engineers. Even when dealing with a jazz or rock band with a horn line, there's a mic for the horns, and they are instructed to play into that mic so that the engineer has control over the mix. Keep in mind that even 15º vs horns to the box, or flat front vs focal point makes a difference in where the sound is headed.

Point being, expecting perfect sound in every seat is not reasonable, and wasn't reasonable even before electronics were introduced into the mix. Even Carnegie Hall has seats where the sound isn't all that great.

Do they use mic's? At the Hollywood Bowl, they routinely mic the symphony to help service such a large concert venue in an environment that's not really meant/ideal for acoustic classical music (sounds familiar, right?)

[N.E. Brigand]

That has never happened, as far back as you can go. Drum corps has always sounded best close to where the judges sit.

Sure, but amplification, particularly in combination with synthesizers, made that problem worse--I would say far worse. There have been several occasions since 2009 where I have been sitting between the 35 and 40 yard lines, and the frequently predominant sound from one or more corps for the audience in that section was the amplified bass or string-patch coming from the speakers, which are typically placed in that area. I had experienced nothing like that prior to 2009. There's a difference between not getting the best sound and getting a bad sound.

Edited May 8, 2015 by N.E. Brigand

[brichtimp]

Where/when was this? Phantom 2014?! I don't remember not hearing their low brass because of synth I'll have to check the video

Several times in 2014 Cadets, the bass synth was way overbalanced vs the acoustic brass line. Additionally, I found some tutti brass sequences in 2014 Bluecoats to be muddy and lacking clarity due to the hype of the sampled brass in the mix. I would contrast this with 2014 BD where the 'real brass' seemed to be well balanced and consistently unadulterated by electronics, and their soloists were beautifully miked, to my ear.

[cowtown]

A sound check is a completely moot point the second you unplug one mixer and plug in another.

Yes and No

Speaker placement will be set but there will need to be minor tweaks for each corps but think of it as house sound. It’s a lot easier plugging in bands and mixing on the fly than re-building the entire sound system for each group

[Kamarag]

Yes and No

Speaker placement will be set but there will need to be minor tweaks for each corps but think of it as house sound. It’s a lot easier plugging in bands and mixing on the fly than re-building the entire sound system for each group

The problem is that corps use much more than just microphones (and every corps uses a different set-up and actual equipment). They also use additional electronic instruments, compression, gating, digital effects, microphone gain, and sampling. The have to use their own boards. And the second you use an equalizer, the house system becomes completely moot. It's *way* easier for corps to set up, break down, and use their own dedicated closed system than any house rig, particularly when you cycle in a different group every twenty minutes.

House systems are fine for garage bands, or for supplementing a touring band's own gear, but it's simply not practical at all for drum corps applications. And that's without getting into who owns the house system, how it gets from stadium to stadium, who is paid to set up and test it, and who is held responsible (fiscally and competitively) if there's an issue with the house system for one corps but not the others.

I served as an audio engineer in the US Army for seven years, and I oversaw the audio mix for a world class corps. Believe me when I tell you a house system was discussed before the expansion of DCI's A&E rules in 2009, and it was dismissed as completely unworkable. I completely understand why a lot of folks don't like A&E in drum corps. I do. I also don't believe that the judging community has been adequately trained in how to judge A&E, and many are afraid to comment on anything in detail mostly because they lack the knowledge to do so. I would hope that a corps' success or failure in the area of A&E would be reflected not only in the scores (for better or worse), but also in detail on tapes...documented commentary indicating how the system is accounted for. But in the couple of years I was doing it, the commentary beyond "Yea! Turn the guitar up! Let him rock!" was almost nonexistent.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Kamarag

[glory]

A century ago, one of the arguments against automobiles was they scared the horses. In the end, it didn't matter that the horses were scared because we weren't going to ride them into the future.

Drum corps too. Electronics will evolve and be judged in a context that doesn't account for the horses' anxiety. Standards stay high but aren't the same. Electronics aren't perfect - but drum corps never was.

It used to be that history was written by the victors. Today, the losers get a word too - and all of us must taste the sour grapes of their whine.

HH

[HockeyDad]

I think it's awesome how you've mastered vapid hyperbole

PROGRESS!!

And you're pretty good at ad hominem attacks apparently.

[Cappybara]

And you're pretty good at ad hominem attacks apparently.

I mean, your statement was pretty hyperbolic.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Cappybara

[N.E. Brigand]

A century ago, one of the arguments against automobiles was they scared the horses. In the end, it didn't matter that the horses were scared because we weren't going to ride them into the future.

Didn't matter to whom?

It used to be that history was written by the victors.

And do you think that was a good thing?

Your argument appears to boil down to "all change is good".

[cbassone]

If your conversation does not relate to the discussion of electronics for the 2014 DCI season, please take them elsewhere.