BRASSO Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) The unfortunate scenario that also plays out for OC and Cascades. Despite their step ups in staff, personnel, and money handling, they are a byproduct of a later school year and lots of high school kids. They have to push everything back, then in doing so, are farther behind. Then they have to run out a long ways to start their tour, or wait for tour to come to them. They effectively start later, miss more, and never really have a chance. If we could magically keep all these marchers practicing thru Halloween, have them go out and compete on Thanksgiving Day, the placements would only change marginally, if at all. Thats my 2 cents worth on when you start your season and when you finish it, and the bearing it has on the eventual placements. Heck, except for a couple of Corps, I'll bet I can place within a placement position or two, 85% of all the Corps right now at Championships... and I havn't seen a single performance except what was shown in the theatre . BITD , before DCI, shows went from early May to end of Sept ( some went to October, where the Veterans sometimes held their National Conventions, and Drum Corps Championships ). Thats a 19-20+ week competition season. Today its compressed into 10 weeks tops. ( and for some Corps, its 5 weeks or so ) So yes, if you are slow out of the gate, you are doomed here in today's DCI. But with Show Design now counting for so much, if we had these Corps practice til Gobble- Gobble Day, it wouldn't really change the placements all much, imo. Edited June 26, 2015 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Funny thing I've heard judges say for the last oh decade if not longer. "I would have scored them higher but I had to leave room for other corps" How the hell is that possible. If say the Crossmen come out on fire and percussion should be scored 18 out of 20 but Blue Devils and Cadets have yet to be judged. If they are better then they should get a higher score. It might be 18.5 and 19 but why should Crossmen get a 16.5 because they haven't scored that high all year and there are two more corps that have placed higher than them still to be judged? Slotting happens. Maybe not on purpose but it does. Drum corps is the ONLY activity where a group CAN"T go from last to first. Heck they can't even go from 6 to first. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumbargleeful Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 If we could magically keep all these marchers practicing thru Halloween, have them go out and compete on Thanksgiving Day, the placements would only change marginally, if at all. Thats my 2 cents worth on when you start your season and when you finish it, and the bearing it has on the eventual placements. Heck, except for a couple of Corps, I'll bet I can place within a placement position or two, 85% of all the Corps right now at Championships... and I havn't seen a single performance except what was shown in the theatre . BITD , before DCI, shows went from early May to end of Sept ( some went to October, where the Veterans sometimes held their National Conventions, and Drum Corps Championships ). Thats a 19-20+ week competition season. Today its compressed into 10 weeks tops. ( and for some Corps, its 5 weeks or so ) So yes, if you are slow out of the gate, you are doomed here in today's DCI. But with Show Design now counting for so much, if we had these Corps practice til Gobble- Gobble Day, it wouldn't really change the placements all much, imo. I'm not pushing for more season. I'm simply pointing out that there is a large chasm between the amount of rehearsal time these groups get in comparison to top tier ensembles. And yes, we agree entirely. See my post from earlier in this thread. You win small chunks of land in the summer time (a spot or two, if that) and you win giant chunks of land in the off-season. That said, 10 years of not winning any of those small chunks of land in the summer time because you have a different rehearsal climate/tour model, DOES add up. We're on the same page. I see it for how it is. But I know that the difference in one place can mean a lot of kids come next off-season. Compound that over time, and even on recruiting alone you've put yourself at a disadvantage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 (edited) Imagine if in the first show of the season, the brass judge was blindfolded. He or She could only HEAR the brass lines. We then had all the Corps go on in a random pick draw.... not " slotted " off the previous years Finals placements. The brass judge was kept in an isolation booth all winter and had no clue on the music to be played on the brass instruments by all the Corps .The brass judge's scores and placements of the lines in this blindfold scenario would all be the same as if he watched, and knew all the Corps, right ? It should be. He or She does not have to see a Corps in performance to judge brass performance. He or She only requires their hearing, and their training to do so. I'd imagine a Corps or two might give some signature clues to the judge, but for all intents and purposes the placements and scores right down the line in a brass judge blindfold scenario should be exactly as if he saw all the Corps, and watched all the Corps, in his or her performance placement and scores. But would they be if the judge was blindfolded ? My hunch, the scores and placements of that brass judge judge in their scores and placements would not be the same. We would witness the judge having shocking... even for that judge... results. We certainly don't know this of course. Its just a hunch of mine, of course. But thats what I think would occur in a blindfold scenario. I guess we'll never know though, huh ? But its something to ponder about for a few minutes on a slow Friday nite anyway. Edited June 27, 2015 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 I'm not pushing for more season. I'm simply pointing out that there is a large chasm between the amount of rehearsal time these groups get in comparison to top tier ensembles. And yes, we agree entirely. See my post from earlier in this thread. You win small chunks of land in the summer time (a spot or two, if that) and you win giant chunks of land in the off-season. That said, 10 years of not winning any of those small chunks of land in the summer time because you have a different rehearsal climate/tour model, DOES add up. We're on the same page. I see it for how it is. But I know that the difference in one place can mean a lot of kids come next off-season. Compound that over time, and even on recruiting alone you've put yourself at a disadvantage. As someone who has been involved in many auditions. Even asked multiple years to come in to a corps that I do not teach as an outiside judge for auditions. I can tell you school time or not ( and many top corps also deal with this, money or not etc etc. I have found MANY times members ( not all of course ) put forth a very different commitment promise at an audition than some would to a lower type corps in WC or open class. NO I am not saying those members dont commit , I am saying Often I have seen the kid who has no money or time for one group suddenly by divine intervention I guess can do it for a different corps or winter group. You are right though, some can be at a deficit , some maybe that can't be helped, some brought on themselves. Either way, that's competition and although we all love to believe all things are equal, they aren't and never have been. Life lesson I suppose. NO ( dont copy only the last line and go off on a tangent..out of context . ) not meaning you, only those who have a need..lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 I really think the whole lack of "room" issue can easily be solved using one of two solutions: 1. Start the season super low. Make reaching 90 at finals a big achievement. That way, running out of room isn't an issue 2. Screw the whole "100 points being the highest possible score." Just set "boxes" for certain achievement levels, and allow judges to go above a 10 in a caption. These are really simple solutions that would solve the whole issue of corps getting screwed if they aren't performing near the last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 But its something to ponder about for a few minutes on a slow Friday nite anyway. Well, the national women's soccer team plays Deutschland next and the Sox are tied in the 9th. Not slow here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortAndFast Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Funny thing I've heard judges say for the last oh decade if not longer. "I would have scored them higher but I had to leave room for other corps" How the hell is that possible. If say the Crossmen come out on fire and percussion should be scored 18 out of 20 but Blue Devils and Cadets have yet to be judged. If they are better then they should get a higher score. It might be 18.5 and 19 but why should Crossmen get a 16.5 because they haven't scored that high all year and there are two more corps that have placed higher than them still to be judged? Slotting happens. Maybe not on purpose but it does. Drum corps is the ONLY activity where a group CAN"T go from last to first. Heck they can't even go from 6 to first. If the Crossmen come out on fire, but the judge has to hear 5 more corps, how does she know the other 5 won't be even better. The answer is, she doesn't. So she has to leave room to place those other 5 corps, whether they turn out better or worse than the Crossmen. Best example is 2010, when Phantom won drums with a 6th place corps. The judges at championships all left themselves room to put 3 or 4 lines above Phantom. But in the end, they didn't think those lines were better, so Phantom won with a lower-than-typical score. Or say it's 2012, Crown has just performed next to last at finals and you're the brass judge. You know they've beaten everyone else you've heard, but there's no way you're going to throw a 20.0 with Blue Devils still to perform. Result: 1st in brass with 19.8. How else could it possibly work? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suviduvi Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I believe DCI is rigged.................say whatever you want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyWonder1911 Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 How about no judging at all, no scores at all, until Prelims. And then do the performance order randomly. I've said this before. I'd really like to see what happens. Isn't this pretty much what BOA does in November? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.