garfield Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Ok, lets break this down since we have a great discussion going here........ The debate continues. The statistics in the above post are peer-reviewed and published, BTW. BTW, DCA used this research project results, and took the drum judge off the field after one reading in their Winter Directors Meeting! Might you share the source data, or point to where it can be seen? So you're suggesting the data shows that judges only judge about 3% of what the snare line plays? Does anyone actually believe that number is true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Frankly - IMO the pit has become so large and complex that it warrants its own judge separate from the battery. I'd put a pit judge with the upstairs judges who's only responsibility is all aspects of the pit. I fully agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 How do judges in general know from what areas to stay away, especially upon first viewing? you don't. you pray and keep your eyes and ears open. in even the band world, you have to pay attention, but it's easy to hear and see what the kids are doing while moving and still pay attention to whats going around you. if you've never teched on the field, it would be an issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 But, um, this isn't DCA. You're comparing high school and college hands to "I have a job, family, and bushes to trim" hands. Not to take anything away from DCA, but it's not even close to the same. no he means DCa pulled the sheet upstairs. And since they are never in giant stadiums, it's less of an issue to hear stuff up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Is it true that the battery is mostly judged whether or not they're a great battery section, based on the snares? only be people who don't want o judge for a long time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Ok, lets break this down since we have a great discussion going here........ The transit time is actually 21% of the show (from this very current survey from marching roundtable) FIELD PERC JUDGE PLACEMENT OVER 96 OBSERVATIONS OF WORLD CLASS DRUM CORPS - INCLUDING DCI CHAMPIONSHIPS MIN/SECS OF SHOW 1200-1300 TOTAL RESPONSES Transit 20.51% Pit 18.99% Snares 14.57% Tenors 11.74% Basses 8.33% Battery Ensemble 17.75% Cymbals, if any 1.16% Show complete or not started 6.96% As far as the read is concerned, MOST of the time a judge spends evaluating a drumline is spend in transit (21%). The actual pit sampling is 19% of the show and we can all agree they deserve better than 19%. The battery receives 54% of the evaluation. That's only half of the show? We can agree that we need to consider segments of the show where battery does not play....etc but the judge still needs to be in transit to evaluate the pit. The track is not an option. The judge needs to be in or near the press box. I agree with you about the current quality being due to the scrutiny they are under BUT, are we really getting great reads of these great sections with the current results of this survey? No. I don't think one of these drumlines would do less because there is not a judge on the field. They may even become more creative. Also, I can go to an August show and see the creativity we see in June because it's all still there and not deleted for ticks sake. Adding a judge just for the pit or battery is a huge step in the wrong direction. It needs to be a unified evaluation with all segments being evaluated with consistency from corps to corps. Having the judge in the stands where he/she can evaluate 100% of the percussion section for 100% of the time seems like a solution. The question is do we want to sacrifice a judge being up close to the individuals for those micro differences or do we want a 100% evaluation from upstairs where the designers design the show to be heard. I think they will get a great read from upstairs without the individual detail the judge can get now...........for 100% of the show. The debate continues. Several questions: First, define "transit". If the judge is on the front hash and the battery is on the back hash, and he's moving to get closer to them while he's watching them, is that "judging" or is that "transit"? Second, no, 80% of the time he's judging. Only 20% of the time in "transit" (however that is defined). Third, of all of the judged segments in this "study", the pit gets the highest percentage of judged time of any section. Is that right? Last, 1200-1300 responses but only 96 observations? Please explain (or point to the source). Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandman28 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) A judge in Michigan took me out in 1990, really messed my mellophone up but it gave the corps a good laugh since I wasn't hurt. Edited July 13, 2015 by bandman28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 The statistics in the above post are peer-reviewed and published, BTW. What's not included there is that that breakdown of positioning in "judgeable spots" only accounts for 24% of the musical exposures of a show. You read that right - one judge on the field is able to sample, on average TWENTY-FOUR PERCENT of the music actually played by the percussionists! 24%. So the 15% of snare sampling is of 24% of what they actually played. Why? It's simple - the players are distributed all over the field, and the judge can't be everywhere at once to hear, unless she's at a focal point in the stands. Back in the 70s and 80's when batterys (that is the correct spelling) marched up-and-down the 50, then two field judges could sample a lot. Now, none of that applies - more players on more instruments in more places. They can absolutely be judged from off-the-field, but only 24% on it. BTW, DCA used this research project results, and took the drum judge off the field after one reading in their Winter Directors Meeting! and their biggest stadium is a soccer field that holds 7000 or so concert side with no roof, and one end of the stadium open air. DCi's bggest shows are in stadiums that hold well over 20,000 concert side with a roof on top. And if you sit up top at Lucas as I did part of semifinals in 2010, with brass blasting and amps cranked to Spinal Tap volumes, you hear rimshots. The rest sounds like mud......and one of the corps I watched up there got a 19.7 in drums at finals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchcoffeeman Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 DCI sure as heck can't call itself "marching music's major league" if BOA puts its judges on the field and DCI sticks its judges up in a box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 "Peer Reviewed". "The Science is in". "The argument is over". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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