Jeff Ream Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 A person with a Percussion background ( a Drum is afterall, a musical instrument ) generally can be considered by that background alone, more capable of judging a blended GE caption ( of music & visual ) than a Guard person can be considered by that background alone capable of judging a blended GE caption. The person with the Guard background ( without musical training on a musical instrument ) is only capable by their Guard experience/ training to judge the GE Visual side. Absent that musical training, experience, playing of a musical instrument, they are no more capable of judging the musical side of the GE caption than the man in the moon is, imo... or anyone else here that has a musical training, experience, or plays a musical instrument in coordination with others in a musical ensemble. Some of the best Guard instructors... and we know this.... can't tell you what a chromatic scale is. They think its something to weigh yourself on. and a chromatic scale isnt effective soley on it's own. it's how it's applied that can create effect 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) I'm pretty sure this is the first time BK has ever beaten PR by more than 2 points. Actually, BK did.. but it was a long time ago. 7/19/1999... Wichita, Kansas: BK..................... 82.0 Phantom...............79.8 ( BD won the show.. 88.80) Edited July 17, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minimaster Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Could be. I do know that the Blue Knights have never, ever topped the Cavaliers before in competition Will that come to an end ? Stay tuned. I believe we are about to see BK top the Cavaliers for the first time ever. Actually, just found it, 6/22/99 in Columbus, OH. BK with a 69.3 and PR with a 65.2. Thank you fromthepressbox.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Okay..thanks for the clarification...that makes sense and sounds okay to me...especially if a judge has poor numbers management for whatever reason. it isn't just about poor management. team A comes out and you go 65/62 team B comes out, slightly worse than team A and you go 62/59 Team C comes out and is light years better than both so boom 70/68 Team D comes out and is close to A, so you go 66/63 but then E comes out and lays an egg...between A and D. So now you can go back and adjust D up or A down or both to send the proper message. Remember it isnt just the bottom line number. you have to manage your subs too, and how you use them to arrive at the total. 1-3 tenths in a sub says "on any given day", and can send powerful messages. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) Actually, just found it, 6/22/99 in Columbus, OH. BK with a 69.3 and PR with a 65.2. Thank you fromthepressbox.com. Also.... 15 years to the day: 7/17/ 2000, Albuquerque, NM : BK.........................83.10 Phantom ...............80.50 Edited July 17, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 just because you can play an instrument means nothing. it means you have design and teaching experience, studied the sheets and trained. I'm apercussionist, but I judge music effect, and many staff members welcome my commentary because i'm not afraid to discuss all voices...too many music judges with no percussion background even mention percussion. I will, as they can be what makes musical effect take the next step up, or in some cases hold it back. last year i actually took a brass and wind section to town for making it look like the drumline was overplaying when in reality, the winds were half assing it. most music judges would automatically blame the drums A very good point, and probably too true...too often. To add to your comments above, a good brass judge can accurately hear range, instrumentation, and orchestration. That's important because if I hear the brass pulling back, yet let's say the trumpets are scored above written G above the staff, and not only are they carrying the melody or some important counter-line passage, but they sound like they are sucking on their mouthpieces...well then I am going to suggest they play out with better control. Even if the brass instructor is saying "We're trying to play soft." Soft and out-of-control with bad tone is not good. And in such a case if it sounded like the battery was covering all this up, or the brass guy tried to say that once the battery came down we'd hear it appropriately, a good brass judge would have the conviction to say "never sacrifice quality of tone for dynamics when range is restricting. Fix the tone and articulation approach first, then worry about balance with percussion." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 How do Crossmen score 3rd in brass, but 8th in music analysis? And Boston scores 7th in brass and 3rd in music analysis? Could be: 1) One judge is on the field and one's in the press box. You can get very different reads. The trend has been to get the judges off the field. I'm not sure where they were judging from for this show. 2) A judge might be "sending a message" to "LISTEN TO MY TAPE!" and / or "COME SEE ME AT CRITIQUE". #### straight that funky numbers like this will get the staff's attention. 3) Maybe the judge had some indigestion during the low-scored corps show. :) Overall, I like this kind of "wacky" scoring mid-season. Too often, I've seen "slotting" where scoring rank is the same across the board across all judges (BD is 1st across all captions, Cadets is 2nd, etc.). For each corps, we know there are strengths and weaknesses. And for each corps, we know the "any given Sunday" argument can apply to a section of the corps or to the entire corps. That should show up on the sheets. My $0.02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) How do Crossmen score 3rd in brass, but 8th in music analysis? And Boston scores 7th in brass and 3rd in music analysis? (double post) Edited July 17, 2015 by bones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bones Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Is GE1 Visual, and GE2 Music? It used to be that GE was broken into two main subdivisions: Visual and Music. When they do this GE1 and GE2 thing I'm not sure what's going on. The two judges were not judging the same content were they? Check out the DCI Field Pass Podcasts from 2014. Dan Potter interviews Michael Cesario on one of the episodes about the judging change. Cesario comments extensively about the changes in the GE judging captions. Basically, one GE judge is more visual focused and the other is more music focused, but the visual guy can comment on, and give points for, a musical effect that they found to be great, and vice versa. They can also give combined credit (viz and music) if there's a well designed effect where both viz and music are used in a holistic way for fantastic effect (like oh, I don't know, the whole Cavaliers 007 show maybe!). If you don't listen to them, the Field Pass podcasts are actually quite good. Dan does a good job covering a lot of interesting topics (judging, move-ins, specific corps shows, etc). Especially in the early season, this is a great way to feed your fix for drum corps info. The interview w/ Dean Westman last year about the Tilt show was one of my favorites. Check it out. Zildjian sponsors the podcasts (as you'll hear at the top of each episode). Enjoy the rest of the season. It's going to be fun to see where all this pans out in the end, ranking-wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luv4corps Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 A very good point, and probably too true...too often. To add to your comments above, a good brass judge can accurately hear range, instrumentation, and orchestration. That's important because if I hear the brass pulling back, yet let's say the trumpets are scored above written G above the staff, and not only are they carrying the melody or some important counter-line passage, but they sound like they are sucking on their mouthpieces...well then I am going to suggest they play out with better control. Even if the brass instructor is saying "We're trying to play soft." Soft and out-of-control with bad tone is not good. And in such a case if it sounded like the battery was covering all this up, or the brass guy tried to say that once the battery came down we'd hear it appropriately, a good brass judge would have the conviction to say "never sacrifice quality of tone for dynamics when range is restricting. Fix the tone and articulation approach first, then worry about balance with percussion." Very insightful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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