N.E. Brigand Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 I know we're having a conversation here, but I've gotta just interject that this is one of those things where: If you know, you know. If you don't know, you will never know. Well, I can chuckle at the point, but I've never agreed with it even when Louis Armstrong applied it to jazz. After all, this thread already shows that some people are sure they "know", but other people seem to "know" quite differently. Part of the confusion is that "band" means different things to different people. Which is not surprising, even if we set aside the programs of halftime-driven bands (whose styles several people have mentioned already), given that even competitive high school bands (1) have changed over time and (2) may have different styles in different circuits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 I have trouble defining it, but I know it when I am seeing/hearing it. I totally get that. My hope is that this conversation gets us a little closer to being able to define it. There have been some suggestions thrown out. After the conversation has had some more time to develop, I'll try to pull the ideas together into a list that we can focus on for further discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) I can recall a certain corps from Bayonne, NJ who, at the time had lots of gimmicks and props, and introduced things such as the Bridgemen shuffle. Lots of people claimed they did all of this to hide weaknesses and sloppy shows. Keep in mind too that this was during the tic system days, but not when everyone else was what we might consider stiff and militaristic. Blue Devils had their classic jazz sound, Phantom was playing music most never thought a drum corps could do successfully, 27th's color guard ruled, Madison blasted everyone to Kingdom Come, and North Star and Garfield entertained. Today when I watch the Bridgemen on DVD, I see clean shows, a strong horn line, some years amazing percussion, and shows that captivated the audience. In their day some said they were not drum corps, and perhaps today would earn the title "bando." Today they are classic old school icons. I never once heard that the Bridgemen did " lots of gimmicks ", and that the reason they did these " gimmicks" was to ( in your words ) " lots of peope claimed they did all this to hide weaknesses and sloppy shows ". Frankly, this smacks at a lame attempt at revisionist history, and my guess, was something you just cooked up now.. Here are the facts.. and the evidence: if what you claim is true, then we would see this in the poor execution score captions from the judges from this late 70's, early 80's early time periods. But we see no such thing. Quite the contrary. We have irrefutable evidence from the score caption archives that the Bridgemen scores in Percussion ( 1st-3rd ), Brass ( 3rd-4th ) , Guard ( 3rd-4th ) were quite good in their top tier mix of Corps they competed with at the time. They were not " sloppy ". They were not " weak ". Bridgemen were 6 tenths away from beating the Blue Devils for a DCI Title in 1980, as a matter of fact. if they were " sloppy " the judges would not have them medaling, as they did. I never heard fans calling this top 3-6 Corps... " sloppy ".... or that Bridgemen designed their show to " hide weaknesses ". Thats BS. Bridgemen did their type of show design to please the fans, first and foremost. We KNOW this for a fact, as we have Bridgemen Show designer Bobby Hoffman telling us this into a microphone, camera. I still have that interview in my personal library archives. Finally, no Drumline taught by DCI Legendary Drum Instructor, and current DCI Broadcast analyst, Dennis Delucia, taught his Bridgemen Drumline in a manner meant to " hide weaknesses". Its BS. Delucia had the Bridgemen snare line become involved in highly demanding, and highly difficult to execute drum line parts, including their difficult to execute blindfold segment in their show a year or two. Their Brass charts were chock full of exposure, including soloist parts. Their Brass line, Percussion Lines were not " sloppy ". Their unique marching technique was not easy.. and they did struggle in M& M scores a bit compared to the other captions. But the judges , nor the fans ( that I ever knew ), ever thought that the Bridgemen designed their type of shows so as to " hide sloppiness"... or " weaknesses". Thats just factually untrue... and the Bridgemen's performance execution captions scores, in Percussion, Guard, Brass, particularly in their best years, lay out for us all, the clear inaccuracy of your observations on this. Edited July 23, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingusmonk Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 To be fair, some of the Blue Stars thing is their look. Out of the gate, look at that their uniform from the plume on down. They look more like they belong with those Broken Arrow and Tarpon Springs videos than their drum corps peers. Sure, the plumes make them look tall, but the design and shape makes them look like kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 To be fair, some of the Blue Stars thing is their look. Out of the gate, look at that their uniform from the plume on down. They look more like they belong with those Broken Arrow and Tarpon Springs videos than their drum corps peers. Sure, the plumes make them look tall, but the design and shape makes them look like kids. like Broken Arrow & Tarpon Springs are bad things Tarpon Springs guys run the Boston program - right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 like Broken Arrow & Tarpon Springs are bad things George - you raise a lot of good points. After following DCI for so long and BOA for not as long, one of my favorite marching programs across the two of them is 2010 Tarpon Springs - the paranormal show. What a great show! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingusmonk Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 like Broken Arrow & Tarpon Springs are bad things Tarpon Springs guys run the Boston program - right? I know I didn't say it in the exact same post, so allow me the indulgence of quoting myself. I think you missed it the first time. This well stated. I have trouble defining it, but I know it when I am seeing/hearing it. When I saw Blue Stars at Indy opening show it was surreal. Being in Lucas Oil and experiencing that show design (and the look of Blue Stars unis) I had the sensation of being in Lucas Oil in the fall for BOA. I couldn't shake it. And to be clear, when I texted some friends that Blue Stars show = BOA show, I didn't mean it as an insult. Just a description of the way they packaged the theme.Very BOA production. I go to BOA shows. Sometimes as a spectator. But I have taught groups competing in BOA and stood on the sideline as my students give it their all. To me, it is not a bad thing. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandonovan Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I'm just dumbfounded at the thought of: exploring the Oklahoma City bombing in a band show. ??!! At the conclusion of the show did you have a better or new understanding of the Oklahoma City bombing!?? It just seems weird. Perhaps an excellent example of BOA Last year a high school from Moore Ok did a show about the Moore Tornado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumManTx Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Last year a high school from Moore Ok did a show about the Moore Tornado. Know which one your'e talking about, I thought that one was pretty #### tasteful and drew a lot of emotion out of me, knowing someone who lives up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandonovan Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Know which one your'e talking about, I thought that one was pretty #### tasteful and drew a lot of emotion out of me, knowing someone who lives up there. Yeah. From what I heard it was to say that them as a community can stand together and overcome the hardships. But in my opinion shows like that based off of natural disasters are kind of Macabre in a way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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