FanLib Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 All the top 3-4 Corps have had pretty much the same staff designing the shows, teaching the MM's for years. Until these guys die, retire, or go to some other Corps, they will position their Corps to win it all every year. And like lemmings, the pilgrimmage to these Mecca's will take on a religious fervor on the part of the winter True Believers to secure an open position. Phantom Regiment, a wonderfully entertaining Corps this season, could have an All Star cast of superior brass, percussionists, guard this season... and they would still not medal.. No matter how well executed the show becomes. If the judges don't like your Show Design, it won't matter, You'll be SOOL for the entire new season before Memorial Day, let alone for the August Championships. As a parent of a MM who is not in a top 7 corps, these statements, while I believe them all to be true, disgusts and saddens me. Too much money and time, too much pain and suffering occur in a season for this to be acceptable, especially the "no matter how well executed the show becomes." The comparison of the Ivy League seems appropo, unfortunately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanLib Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I'd be interested in what some have to say about this. How do corps tour differently from each other, what kind of extremes are we talking about, and how does that attract/repel prospective members? But this is probably for a different thread. Someone needs to start this thread. Would be quite interesting. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luv4corps Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Someone needs to start this thread. Would be quite interesting. I would read this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) Setting aside for a moment the historical data that supports the predominance of the Show Design to placements, lets just look at the last 2 weeks alone for evidence of it: The Cadets 2 weeks ago had a decent lead over Crown in head to head competition of late. Both Corps have great MM talent, both Corps MM's are presumably working as hard as each other. Both Corps put in changes in their Visual closers, and at about the same time. The Cadets went back into their past and brought out a Z formation they have used before as their visual closer. Crown, on the other hand, changed their Visual with a Visual change that made their musical closer " Ode to Joy " provide more clarity to the theme in a most uplifting way... the change in the colors of the banner from Red to Gold in the closer was brilliant as it more fully completes the musical selection chosen for the closer now, imo. As a result, Crown caught up to the Cadets, and topped them in back to back shows. Was this a result of Cadets MM's not working in practice as smartly as Crown these last 10-14 days ? I don't think so. My guess, both Corps MM's worked their tails off in equal measure, and both went out and executed their shows well, particularly at the last head to head competition between these 2 fine Corps. Then what changed ? What principally allowed Crown to catch Cadets ?. Well, I believe the answer to this question can be primarily found in the Show Design... which is primarily an adult generated change. Edited July 30, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBones Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I personally feel there is too much emphasis on winning. Trying to be at the top of the ladder costs way too much money. If you have the money, use it, get the best of everything and go out and compete to be the best. If you can raise that kind of money, my hats off to you. Unfortuanately when a corps has limited funds, they must work with what they have and be sure to give the members, staff, support staff and anyone else traveling with the corps the best possible summer. The last few years (including this one) corps are begging for money while on the road. I have talked to a lot of kids throughout the years about how after they age out, the turn their back on the activity due to the pressures and did not have fun. Too many corps have vanished due to the pressures to be a dci touring corps or trying to be a finalist or trying to get that gold ring. Nothing wrong with trying to be the best, but know the parameters you are working with so you do not go belly up. I personally perfer just to be entertained and see a corps last 25-50-75 years and more than win a championship and be long gone 5 years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Setting aside for a moment the historical data that supports the predominance of the Show Design to placements, lets just look at the last 2 weeks alone for evidence of it: The Cadets 2 weeks ago had a decent lead over Crown in head to head competition of late. Both Corps have great MM talent, both Corps MM's are presumably working as hard as each other. Both Corps put in changes in their Visual closers, and at about the same time. The Cadets went back into their past and brought out a Z formation they have used before as their visual closer. Crown, on the other hand, changed their Visual with a Visual change that made their musical closer " Ode to Joy " provide more clarity to the theme in a most uplifting way... the change in the colors of the banner from Red to Gold in the closer was brilliant as it more fully completes the musical selection chosen for the closer now, imo. As a result, Crown caught up to the Cadets, and topped them in back to back shows. Was this a result of Cadets MM's not working in practice as smartly as Crown these last 10-14 days ? I don't think so. My guess, both Corps MM's worked their tails off in equal measure, and both went out and executed their shows well, particularly at the last head to head competition between these 2 fine Corps. Then what changed ? What principally allowed Crown to catch Cadets ?. Well, I believe the answer to this question can be primarily found in the Show Design... which is primarily an adult generated change. A lot of good stuff here and pretty accurate reconciliation so far. But here's my summation of where we find ourselves competitively. IMO for the first time in recent memory, 5 corps have fielded a champion design the same year...no question. As a result it is completely about execution....and nobody owns a caption...what a cool thing to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) A lot of good stuff here and pretty accurate reconciliation so far. But here's my summation of where we find ourselves competitively. IMO for the first time in recent memory, 5 corps have fielded a champion design the same year...no question. As a result it is completely about execution....and nobody owns a caption...what a cool thing to happen. YES! but it's all about quality in all areas, which is what shows should be. Complete packages which is every designers and techs dream and job right from the beginning. SO, as I see it alot of people doing their jobs on and off the field and that's what makes it what it is this year and champions, which doesnt have to just mean 1st place. Edited July 30, 2015 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I personally feel there is too much emphasis on winning. Trying to be at the top of the ladder costs way too much money. If you have the money, use it, get the best of everything and go out and compete to be the best. If you can raise that kind of money, my hats off to you. Unfortuanately when a corps has limited funds, they must work with what they have and be sure to give the members, staff, support staff and anyone else traveling with the corps the best possible summer. The last few years (including this one) corps are begging for money while on the road. I have talked to a lot of kids throughout the years about how after they age out, the turn their back on the activity due to the pressures and did not have fun. Too many corps have vanished due to the pressures to be a dci touring corps or trying to be a finalist or trying to get that gold ring. Nothing wrong with trying to be the best, but know the parameters you are working with so you do not go belly up. I personally perfer just to be entertained and see a corps last 25-50-75 years and more than win a championship and be long gone 5 years later. Competition is what we do. Until thats changes it will always be a huge part of it . Now with that said winning is not just 1st place. wouldnt a corps never in finals now making it be a win? I think so Wouldnt a corps who has dropped now surging forward a win? Yes, wouldnt a corps never in top 5 be a win? yes It can also be pressure from top to bottom. I do agree though you work in your means and if you do not have the money to be competitive then get creative, people do it. You must also be ready for that level. WGI many years ago describes what is is to be in each class. When entering WC they specifically said be ready financially also, because you will spend more in many areas to be competitive . I think where problems come in is when people want to be something they are clearly not ready to be. Ive seen that alot winter and summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBones Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Competition is what we do. Until thats changes it will always be a huge part of it . Now with that said winning is not just 1st place. wouldnt a corps never in finals now making it be a win? I think so Wouldnt a corps who has dropped now surging forward a win? Yes, wouldnt a corps never in top 5 be a win? yes It can also be pressure from top to bottom. I do agree though you work in your means and if you do not have the money to be competitive then get creative, people do it. You must also be ready for that level. WGI many years ago describes what is is to be in each class. When entering WC they specifically said be ready financially also, because you will spend more in many areas to be competitive . I think where problems come in is when people want to be something they are clearly not ready to be. Ive seen that alot winter and summer. You are correct, competition is what we do. Bottom line though is to get to the next level, first raise the needed funds to get there. My statement is that too many corps try be be more than they are without gathering the funds first to be competitive, so they can do what it takes to get to the next level. If the funds are not there, be creative or accept your lot until you can raise the necessary funds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HPUEuph Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I think where problems come in is when people want to be something they are clearly not ready to be. Ive seen that alot winter and summer. YES. You don't mortgage the farm for a couple years of success. Reminds me of Capitol Regiment and when they took out all the loans they did and couldn't repay them.... Just from when I marched, 2005-2007 I've seen numerous corps come and go from World Class, formerly Div. I: Kiwanis Kavaliers, Esperanza, Southwind, Capitol Regiment, and Glassmen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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