Musicman1084 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Pioneer ( and perhaps a couple of other Corps) should be in the Open Class Division, not the World Class Division. I see nothing enriching in a competitive arena to be miscaste in competitive Division in which such placement dooms one each and every season to the bottom of the Division. Thats beyond silly. Its sad for the MM's, really. Put them in Open Class. Then they can properly gauge themselves throughout the season against similar level Corps. When Pioneer marchers are pretty much resigned to last place each and every season as competitors in the World Class Division, then adult egos perhaps have blunted the entrance into the cranium of what should be a common sense approach. Pioneer has improved themselves this season too. But its an improvement in the wrong Division and one that still relegates themselves to their customary last place position. DCI should have the authority to step in on behalf of the MM's and for proper competitive assignment and make the decision to move Pioneer to the proper division that they belong in. Over a decade of last place finishes requires such a common sense approach and for the betterment of everyone, imo. Not that I disagree with you, but by these guidelines, should SCVC/BDB then be asked to move up to world class, given how they have dominated competition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afd Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 SCVC and BDB pretty much are the dominate forces in OC division. Is this good? These are corps that are part of a world class organization. They will never move to world class status. They seem to trade off wins every other year. What is the purpose of open class corps? Do these corps other than BDB and SCVC even have a chance at an Open Class win? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 They are both on limited schedules and serve mainly high school performers. Other open class corps are starting to step it up. I am just as proud of our Vanguard Cadets as I am with BDB. They've been duking it out for decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) Not that I disagree with you, but by these guidelines, should SCVC/BDB then be asked to move up to world class, given how they have dominated competition? No. I don't believe so. The difference here is that SCVC/ BDB have been properly assigned to the correct competitive Division in my opinion. The fact they have dominated the correct division they have been assigned does not mean they have been miscaste in the wrong division. These 2 Corps are in the Divisions that best suites them. The competition within this division from other Corps has at least been competitive for them most years. Thats completely unlike Pioneer the last decade. Because Pioneer has been miscaste in the wrong Division they have hopelessly taken up last place each and every year as a result. Even once again this season, they are not tenths removed from moving out of the cellar. They are several points behind the next to last place Corps in the World Class Division. Its been this way for them for far too long, imo. That speaks volumes, imo, that Pioneer would be better served to be assigned by DCI to a competitive division ( Open Class ) that befits their current staff and MM talent level within DCI. Edited August 5, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Obviously three OC corps will make it to semi's and SCVC, BDB, and Spartans are the most likely candidates. I do not expect to see Pioneer not make semi's. I agree that there was some improvement in Pioneer this year, and I respect Pioneer remaining in WC, but they need to work their shows a bit more. Cascades and Surf are evenly matched at this point,. Cascades is improved this year and could make semi's. Surf and Spartans and 7th Regiment appeared together in two early season shows but did not compete against each other since they were in different competitive categories. Earlier Surf was stronger than 7th and Spartans but Spartans and 7th had shows with more demand which seem to be doing well. This could hurt Surf. Between 7th and Spartans are Genesis and Legends, both of whom have WC aspirations. So Cascades and Surf have some real competition ahead of them. I would predict that the top 5 in Open Class will make semis. I do not think SCVC or BDB will come close to making finals. I do not expect to see either place ahead of Academy, Troopers, or Colts for that matter. Both could shake things up a bit, but I don't expect to see a Magic of Orlando kind of ascent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajlemm Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 No. The difference here is that SCVC/ BDB have been properly assigned to the correct competitive Division in my opinion. The fact they have dominated the correct division they have been assigned too does not mean they have been miscaste in the wrong division. These 2 Corps are in the Divisions that best suites them. The competition within this division has at least been competitive for them most years. Thats completely unlike Pioneer the last decade. Because they have been miscaste in the wrong Division they have hopelessly taken up last place each and every year as a result. Even this season, they are not tenths removed from moving out of the cellar. They are several points behind the next to last place Corps in the World Class Division. That speaks volumes, imo, that Pioneer is better served to be assigned by DCI a competitive division ( Open Class ) that befits their current level in DCI. I don't necessarily disagree with this, although I do feel that MM who audition for corps like Pioneer fully understand what they are getting into. Here's what I propose: Does anyone here know how the English Soccer Leagues work? If you do well, you move up to Premiere League. If you are consistently low, you move back down to the "lower" leagues, until you dominate again. I kind of like the "osmosis" method (diffusion across a semi-permeable membrane) of moving up and down. What would prevent something like this? Is it the $$$ that World Class corps' get? I don't know very much about that part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcarlton Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Pioneer ( and perhaps a couple of other Corps) should be in the Open Class Division, not the World Class Division. I see nothing enriching in a competitive arena to be miscaste in competitive Division in which such placement dooms one each and every season to the bottom of the Division. Thats beyond silly. Its sad for the MM's, really. Put them in Open Class. Then they can properly gauge themselves throughout the season against similar level Corps. When Pioneer marchers are pretty much resigned to last place each and every season as competitors in the World Class Division, then adult egos perhaps have blunted the entrance into the cranium of what should be a common sense approach. Pioneer has improved themselves this season too. But its an improvement in the wrong Division and one that still relegates themselves to their customary last place position. DCI should have the authority to step in on behalf of the MM's and for proper competitive assignment and make the decision to move Pioneer to the proper division that they belong in. Over a decade of last place finishes requires such a common sense approach and for the betterment of everyone, imo. I agree with you Brasso but moving them into OC would effect their income and potentially lead to those corps folding due to a massive loss in "income". So it's a choice of moving a corps out of World Class due to poor performance and low scoring potentially leading to them losing more members and being forced to take a year off. In that... I just say "Pioneer is Pioneer" and they exist in their niche. Should they be in World Class? "Shrug" probably not especially that year they couldn't field a tenor line but that's not my business. As long as they keep pulling members, funds, and can field a corps that meets the World Class Standards (or any potential caveats made due to the DCM merger) it is what it is. In my opinion this is where the 3 class system worked a little better and could help some of these ensembles (especially if ran more like WGI) and allow ensembles to garner titles and bolster their programs ala 9 Time World Champions The Mandarins. Granted, I was always a big Division 2 & Division 3 fan any ways and see the value in those programs for their pure love and desire to just perform and be apart of a corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortAndFast Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 I don't necessarily disagree with this, although I do feel that MM who audition for corps like Pioneer fully understand what they are getting into. Here's what I propose: Does anyone here know how the English Soccer Leagues work? If you do well, you move up to Premiere League. If you are consistently low, you move back down to the "lower" leagues, until you dominate again. I kind of like the "osmosis" method (diffusion across a semi-permeable membrane) of moving up and down. What would prevent something like this? Is it the $$$ that World Class corps' get? I don't know very much about that part of it. World Class receives performance fees at shows, Open Class does not. The World Class tour is also longer, although I'm not sure how much of it is mandatory for all WC groups. There's a reason, after all, why groups like Pioneer prefer to be at the bottom of World Class rather than placing higher in Open Class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Yea the 3 class system was best. This year we have a couple of BDC kids performing in I&E and also something very interesting is about to happen in about 2 more minutes by JTW ensemble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadwick Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 Vanguard Cadets and BDB are definitely in. After that it gets a bit more tricky as 3rd - 6th place OC corps are so close. One more is definitely in (probably Spartans) plus I think the 4th OC corps will outscore Pioneer. After that, it is a tough call and it will be exciting to see how close the scores are for the last couple positions in semi-finals. Will Jersey Surf and Cascades be outscored? Will Genesis, Legends and/or 7th Regiment make it in? I really want to see Cascades make Semi-Finals this year. They have made a huge improvement from last year and I want to see that pay off with a Friday performance. I'd also like to see Legends squeeze in as they too made huge improvements from 2014 and it would be great to see them make the cut. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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