truman Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 To me, it's seems the last 3 shows from BD aAt this point if BD ends up passing crown I would be shocked. Yes BD moves well when they are not playing, and plays well when they are not moving. But no way, no how their show is even remotely close to the difficulty level as the other top 5. re very similar. Great brass, great percussion as a musical entity but as a marching ensemble, sorry this show is really not on the same level. It seems BD has figured out the judges seem to love props painted bright white whether it's chairs, ladders, staging...etc. Just park and bark, then scatter drill to your next set around white props, then stop again and dazzle the judges with your groundbreaking brass book. Cadets move more in the first 4 minutes than BD does in the entire show. Crown has more GE in the first 3 minutes than BD does in the entire show, and Bloo has more ingenuity in the first minute than BD foes in there entire show. Yet after all this, BD is in a position to maybe pull this off. I hope creativity, crowd response and general effect end up king for the 2015 season. If BD wins, then DCI needs to re evaluate how champions are determined. I normally just skip past these kind of posts, but this one is just horse****. In the first 3.5 minutes of Crowns show, they scatter into their opening set, with about 20 brass stopping and playing little clips, then they prance and dance while playing their brass impact, (is this playing on the move to you?). Then they scatter again and sit as the enter banner is unfurled, then they finally do some "marching" during the drum break when they don't play a note. So, if you equate moving and playing with GE and difficulty, a corps who doesn't do that for the first 4th of their show probably should not be Championship worthy in your mind. As far as DCI re evaluating scoring systems, perhaps when a corps doesn't have the highest visual scores, or the highest brass score, or the highest guard score, and barely a top 5 drum line, and they still come in 1st, maybe that is worth re evaluating? 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevlar496 Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Agree. Go listen to Phantom play the Organ Symphony (Saint-Seans) from 1990. Much much better, and more like Phantom. Jim Wren 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dans Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 OK, my intention is not to come off as a bitter Cadets fan, just a disgusted one. The results from last night were so predictable. All of us Cadets fans saw this coming for the past several weeks. And it seems as though the Cadets could practice 24 hours a day, and last nights results were inevitable. But, the Cadets are the Cadets, they will stay focused and do another amazing performance tonight (with the clear understanding that they will finish in 4th). On the off season, DCI needs to take a hard look at their organization. This is DRUM AND BUGLE corps, and when a corps wins DRUMS and BRASS and comes in 4th (by a sizable margin) something is out of whack with the evaluation process. The sad thing is, the Cadets have been busting their collective ##### for months, attempting to perfect a monster of a show with insane playing and marching demand. And the clear answer to their frustrations was obvious all along. They need to add a huge banner (it would have to be huge because the Cadets actually use the entire field) with 10 on it and pull it over the corps in the beginning and end of the show! This simple move would improve the Cadets score by at leas 2 points and they would be sitting in first right now. However, the Cadets would not do this simple addition, they never take the easy way. Additionally, the Cadets need to stop playing and marching so much, it's not fashionable with the judges anymore! Rant over; go Cadets, you freaking rock! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerguy315 Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 look... GE is the most important caption, and the score in this caption is almost 100% on the designers, NOT the members. The members can do very little to impact GE. That's the way it has been for awhile now. The members, when it comes down to it, have minimal control over where their show ends up. The activity is mostly adults judging adults. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 Yes, the judges in the tic system could hold back (or not) on tics. But, at least the judge (and a later reviewer) had some actual data to go by, to come up with a score. With the current system, a judge basically pulls a random number (influenced by slotting) out of his butt to come up with a score. It's a guess or an "opinion". I still feel the tic system was more accurate (and more honest?). How do you explain the .6 difference in drum execution between the 2 drum judges for Bluecoats tonight? No it really wasnt. it was totally subjective and data as you choose to call it was as random and subjective as just stting there and pulling numbers out of the air. Honest it was not either. Often when you confronted a judge back then, the common reaction was I called it like i saw it. That answer would never fly today with out back up. As far as differences between one judge and another , all you have to do is look back at old sheets to see at times there were points , many point differences which could never be explained, the the old " well I called it as i saw it came out" I've worked under both systems and judged under both also and this one is far from perfect but much better than what we had. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corps8294 Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 The reality is that it's a BOA, WGI, and winter drumline influenced activity, now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THeShadeOfNight Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 OK, my intention is not to come off as a bitter Cadets fan, just a disgusted one. The results from last night were so predictable. All of us Cadets fans saw this coming for the past several weeks. And it seems as though the Cadets could practice 24 hours a day, and last nights results were inevitable. But, the Cadets are the Cadets, they will stay focused and do another amazing performance tonight (with the clear understanding that they will finish in 4th). On the off season, DCI needs to take a hard look at their organization. This is DRUM AND BUGLE corps, and when a corps wins DRUMS and BRASS and comes in 4th (by a sizable margin) something is out of whack with the evaluation process. The sad thing is, the Cadets have been busting their collective ##### for months, attempting to perfect a monster of a show with insane playing and marching demand. And the clear answer to their frustrations was obvious all along. They need to add a huge banner (it would have to be huge because the Cadets actually use the entire field) with 10 on it and pull it over the corps in the beginning and end of the show! This simple move would improve the Cadets score by at leas 2 points and they would be sitting in first right now. However, the Cadets would not do this simple addition, they never take the easy way. Additionally, the Cadets need to stop playing and marching so much, it's not fashionable with the judges anymore! Rant over; go Cadets, you freaking rock! Usually I let rants be rants and move on, but you do need to know it is possible to play incredibly clean and still not have a large General Effect impact. Also, the first banner was used by Crown all the way back when they were 4th/5th. It did not add nor subtract anything in visual, but made for a cool effect when they revealed to be in a new set (those GE points I mentioned). The Cadets do not need to march less. They need to march better tonight and the scores SHOULD reflect that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sched88 Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 All that we know for sure was that Garfield was in first until they changed to black, It was a bad move and a big waste of money. Garfield has a great great traditional drum corp uniform. Black does absolutly nothing for them...or anyone else for that matter...except of course for the greatest uniform and the best headgear in the history of the Drum and Bugle corps activity, the Belleville Black Knights, but they at least had some white in the uni too. I don't know; i LOVED 1996 Phantom Regiment when they were all black. I preferred them in black to their white uniforms. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 (edited) OK, my intention is not to come off as a bitter Cadets fan, just a disgusted one. The results from last night were so predictable. All of us Cadets fans saw this coming for the past several weeks. And it seems as though the Cadets could practice 24 hours a day, and last nights results were inevitable. But, the Cadets are the Cadets, they will stay focused and do another amazing performance tonight (with the clear understanding that they will finish in 4th). On the off season, DCI needs to take a hard look at their organization. This is DRUM AND BUGLE corps, and when a corps wins DRUMS and BRASS and comes in 4th (by a sizable margin) something is out of whack with the evaluation process. The sad thing is, the Cadets have been busting their collective ##### for months, attempting to perfect a monster of a show with insane playing and marching demand. And the clear answer to their frustrations was obvious all along. They need to add a huge banner (it would have to be huge because the Cadets actually use the entire field) with 10 on it and pull it over the corps in the beginning and end of the show! This simple move would improve the Cadets score by at leas 2 points and they would be sitting in first right now. However, the Cadets would not do this simple addition, they never take the easy way. Additionally, the Cadets need to stop playing and marching so much, it's not fashionable with the judges anymore! Rant over; go Cadets, you freaking rock! I feel your emotion, Sir. I highlighted the drum and bugle reference. It took a time for me, but I have been able to get past the terminology. It really is not drum and bugle corps anymore. It's still similar, but the whole thing has EXPLODED into something else. It's a big scale extravaganza that has no real bounds going forward. I think the whole darn enterprise needs to be called SoundSport, frankly. Bottom line, whatever 'this' continues to become . . . . . it's AMAZING. Simply AMAZING ! Let yourself free. Edited August 8, 2015 by Fred Windish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contracurt Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 (edited) Yes we do. Cadets are now down .5 in GE visual and down .7 in visual analysis . Let's see, if you add .5 + .7 you get 1.2 . If you add 1.2 to 95.5 you get 96.7 . That would put them .075 behind Crown. That's less than .1 behind with one night to go. Hmmm?. What might affect those captions? Could it be that you can't give credit for something you can't see? As in changing to black unforms? Perhaps. Cadets were getting lower visual scores than BD and Crown before the uniform change. Edited August 8, 2015 by contracurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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