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corpsband

Jersey Surf and competitive success

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You are 100 % right. But there are also those who don't stay,( many ) a reason why some corps stays young or have continual turnover of many mm's year after year.

A corps can certainly choose for themselves and neither is wrong but either way there are always consequences to every choice and people have to realize this.

Yeah man, a corps has to be very clear about its mission. But I also believe that the mission emphasis changes as corps change their competitive position.

It also takes a stout director to stand in the face of the staff who want 10-hour days to jump a spot and say "No, give the kids eight hours of floor time. And find fresh fruit." I'm pretty sure Bob Jacobs is one of those.

I'll not name the corps, but I witnessed this season a corps whose poor infrastructure planning and management left the corps parked in a rest stop for nearly seven hours while their drivers rested. Upon arriving at the school the kids unpacked to the gym, brushed their teeth, had breakfast, practiced all day and did a show that night. Those kids never laid their heads on the gym floor where their suitcases rested but, instead, they got their sleep in their bus seats stinking from their performance the night before. That corps is lauded here (in other threads) as having "turned the corner" and are "on their way". Until they fix their internal mission focus their buses will continue to sit in the rest stops while their competitors are sleeping quietly and prone on the gym floors, for eight hours. (Because this is a Surf thread I'll state specifically that I'm not referring to Surf.)

Edited by garfield

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Yeah man, a corps has to be very clear about its mission. But I also believe that the mission emphasis changes as corps change their competitive position.

Again right.

I do think that can be the hard part. As a matter of fact I know. One has to motivate. In this case one has to be very clear of their mission as you say BUT also not make false visions of grandeur. At least competitively.

There's nothing wrong with being a Pio or a Surf as long as one does realize because of the choice on what you want to be or provide to a potential member it could mean large numbers of MMs choosing to do something different. All corps I think serve a purpose and fill a void. One just has to be ready for what it takes to be what they actually want to be, or not.

Edited by GUARDLING

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Yeah man, a corps has to be very clear about its mission. But I also believe that the mission emphasis changes as corps change their competitive position.

It also takes a stout director to stand in the face of the staff who want 10-hour days to jump a spot and say "No, give the kids eight hours of floor time. And find fresh fruit." I'm pretty sure Bob Jacobs is one of those.

I'll not name the corps, but I witnessed this season a corps whose poor infrastructure planning and management left the corps parked in a rest stop for nearly seven hours while their drivers rested. Upon arriving at the school the kids unpacked to the gym, brushed their teeth, had breakfast, practiced all day and did a show that night. Those kids never laid their heads on the gym floor where their suitcases rested but, instead, they got their sleep in their bus seats stinking from their performance the night before. That corps is lauded here (in other threads) as having "turned the corner" and are "on their way". Until they fix their internal mission focus their buses will continue to sit in the rest stops while their competitors are sleeping quietly and prone on the gym floors, for eight hours. (Because this is a Surf thread I'll state specifically that I'm not referring to Surf.)

Yeah I have done some work with corps that sometimes if a kid got 2 hours of floor time it was alot. Bus time was sleep time. Most usually do know what they are getting into and I have seen corps do this and be very successful and others who do the opposite and fail. There's alot to this all and I'm not preaching right or wrong because there's always a corps doing the opposite and succeeding.

Competitively , which is what this thread is about is something different and can mean different things to different people which is more than ok. As you say though, the mission ( and not just on paper ) needs to be clear.

This also is NOT just about Surf or any bottom WC corps. I talk to potential MMs every year and hear the stories and there are top 12 who do not provide what some are looking for and not clear on that mission you speak of and predictably those also are the corps with the younger members, many staff turn overs, member turnover,etc etc.

I actually think sometimes the lower corps may have a clearer vision or maybe realistic than those mid WC corps sometimes. Of course there are exceptions to this also.

Edited by GUARDLING

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This is the heart of the point I was trying to make. Neither I know nor does anyone else here know what is in the hearts and minds of the corps members and its staff. If they are indeed unhappy about their current status then by all means they should take steps to change it for the better. On the other hand, if the are happy with it, who the hell are we on DCP to tell them what the should be doing?

I don't claim to see into the heart of every staff person or member of the corps (nor do I think that's the standard DCP posters should be expected to meet) .

I'll just say this: there were plenty in both categories who *did* care about being the best corps they could be this year and were left to wonder if the leadership felt the same.

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This is an unfair characterization, IMO. There is another option. Your statement makes it seem that non-competitive corps only train kids for other corps, and that's not the case. There are lots of kids in this activity who have no self-delusions of playing on Saturday night, yet return to those corps for the great experience they have year after year. Many of us know them personally.

All those corps are trying to be competitive and making moves. Look at cascades. In one year they cane out new uniforms strong show and made Friday night. Next year I see them growing due to their changes and pushes towards being competitive. Pioneer took great steps in size and show design. They started coming around at the end and this is probably the corps with the most turnover year to year. I can see pio passing surf next year. The. What do you do? Keep the same staff that's there giving the kids a good experience or restart? Every corps in world class has made big changes in the last couple years and surf hasn't. From bridgemania to this year they've gone down. If it's all about the experience and not about competition that's fine and I hope the kids enjoy it. I know when I marched I wasn't OK with where we were at and I always wanted to be better so give the kids a better show, a better staff, and they will get a better exerience. Also if it's about a good exerience they would have alot of vets coming back. I was a fan of surf when they were open class/div 2 but since they jumped to world class the shows have been lacking. Something needs to change.
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This is an unfair characterization, IMO. There is another option. Your statement makes it seem that non-competitive corps only train kids for other corps, and that's not the case. There are lots of kids in this activity who have no self-delusions of playing on Saturday night, yet return to those corps for the great experience they have year after year. Many of us know them personally.

it doesnt assume that Surf or any other corps trains kids for the next tier up. it can also mean thats how kids see it. if Surf could retain large batches of membership every year, and ramp the design up to go along with the returning talent, I think some things would change

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I guess if we're being honest and looking at JUST World Class corps, than there's no denying Jersey Surf is near the very bottom/significantly below average, and beat only one WC corps (Pioneer) in ANY Caption

On the bright side, 50% of corps are above average too. I can show you the math on this if you are interested.

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Edit: never mind ... I promised myself I wouldn't post in this forum ...

Edited by Eleran

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Sure hope no one was copying off your math in school.

50% of the corps are above the median, not necessarily the average.

this is the WC lineup ONLY so its the bottom not 50 %..Surf needs a great big hug...and some jazz hands!

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Yeah man, a corps has to be very clear about its mission. But I also believe that the mission emphasis changes as corps change their competitive position.

It also takes a stout director to stand in the face of the staff who want 10-hour days to jump a spot and say "No, give the kids eight hours of floor time. And find fresh fruit." I'm pretty sure Bob Jacobs is one of those.

I'll not name the corps, but I witnessed this season a corps whose poor infrastructure planning and management left the corps parked in a rest stop for nearly seven hours while their drivers rested. Upon arriving at the school the kids unpacked to the gym, brushed their teeth, had breakfast, practiced all day and did a show that night. Those kids never laid their heads on the gym floor where their suitcases rested but, instead, they got their sleep in their bus seats stinking from their performance the night before. That corps is lauded here (in other threads) as having "turned the corner" and are "on their way". Until they fix their internal mission focus their buses will continue to sit in the rest stops while their competitors are sleeping quietly and prone on the gym floors, for eight hours. (Because this is a Surf thread I'll state specifically that I'm not referring to Surf.)

While emergency situations do arise, if this is standard practice for this corps it's rather deplorable tour administration, unless they are the Montana Mounties or some such where it takes them that long just to leave their State. It's probably a violation of some law as well, given that folks on airplanes can only be held for so many hours nowadays. Was the corps running the AC on the busses all that time, the recircs for new air, etc.???

Some things begin to be health hazards..........................................especially given some busses on DCI tour.

Edited by xandandl
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