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corpsband

Jersey Surf and competitive success

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Because of the average age of the mm, don't they start their camp in June since many are still in HS? Plus, their schedule doesn't cover the normal WO number of shows and miles covered.

Audition camps? Winter camps? The basics and fundamentals are taught at these camps. Surf looks and sounds like they are taught very little in regards to those areas. They aren't even being prepared and set up for success.

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Yea, this thread is dumb. From the get go.

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Yea, this thread is dumb. From the get go.

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Nah always get a virus when you click that from a website....

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I concur. With so much of the work that has to happen before thanksgiving weekend, if people are paying thousands of dollars to march your ensemble, you owe it to them to give them the best possible product you can. You owe it to them to make improvements through the summer as necessary. You owe it to them to educate them to perform at a level higher than they ever thought possible, and you owe it to them to create a show and an experience that keeps them coming back to make your corps stronger. Retention rate. Talent alone can only go so far in this activity, but experienced MMs raise the entire performing level of a corps. They become your leadership, and they help top incoming talent become high level performers faster and more efficient than with educational staff alone. You don't have to stress scores or placements to your members, because really, that's all on you the educator. They should only have to worry about being a performer of the highest level. But if you give them an experience like no other, and enough of a decent placement, you'll keep a few more vets from year to year. Which raises the bar with every one you bring back.

I could start from the beginning with everything that doesnt work for me with this summers performance, uniform choice what have you but its all in the books now..

All Im saying with everything that is available to them, I think they should look at their numbers and placement and strive for MORE. Have fun YES but also crave the movement in place instead of being stuck on the bottom wrung all season. There needs to be some serious consideration in packing a powerhouse show and get these kids hungry for more than just a happy go lucky performance. How do you know they dont want more? Everyone wants to do better....dont they???

Edited by C.Holland
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I concur. With so much of the work that has to happen before thanksgiving weekend, if people are paying thousands of dollars to march your ensemble, you owe it to them to give them the best possible product you can. You owe it to them to make improvements through the summer as necessary. You owe it to them to educate them to perform at a level higher than they ever thought possible, and you owe it to them to create a show and an experience that keeps them coming back to make your corps stronger. Retention rate. Talent alone can only go so far in this activity, but experienced MMs raise the entire performing level of a corps. They become your leadership, and they help top incoming talent become high level performers faster and more efficient than with educational staff alone. You don't have to stress scores or placements to your members, because really, that's all on you the educator. They should only have to worry about being a performer of the highest level. But if you give them an experience like no other, and enough of a decent placement, you'll keep a few more vets from year to year. Which raises the bar with every one you bring back.

So true and the more experienced group the better the show and placement. Its almost treated as a team, they know their strengths and weaknesses to try to build on that with familiarity until it gels into a successful (not only in placement but the retention of bodies year after year) corps.

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I concur. With so much of the work that has to happen before thanksgiving weekend, if people are paying thousands of dollars to march your ensemble, you owe it to them to give them the best possible product you can. You owe it to them to make improvements through the summer as necessary. You owe it to them to educate them to perform at a level higher than they ever thought possible, and you owe it to them to create a show and an experience that keeps them coming back to make your corps stronger. Retention rate. Talent alone can only go so far in this activity, but experienced MMs raise the entire performing level of a corps. They become your leadership, and they help top incoming talent become high level performers faster and more efficient than with educational staff alone. You don't have to stress scores or placements to your members, because really, that's all on you the educator. They should only have to worry about being a performer of the highest level. But if you give them an experience like no other, and enough of a decent placement, you'll keep a few more vets from year to year. Which raises the bar with every one you bring back.

I'm sorry, Surf doesn't need me as a defender, but you're making general broad statements that few would argue.

Anyone here know what Surf's retention is? Eleran can probably tell us current fees but isn't it true that kids trying out for Surf know that they're getting a different experience than a typical touring corps?

Is there a presumption on the part of Surf MM's that they were going to get something different than they expected? If so, is that necessarily Surf's fault?

Is there any evidence that Surf did not give the MM's "...the best possible product..." it could?

Is there some indication this year that Surf didn't educate the MM's, or teach them to reach for a performance they didn't think they had in them?

Is all of that evidenced by placement?

If you're going to make such a contention based on placement, isn't it true that you could make the contention all the way up to second place?

The first rung on the ladder makes it easier to climb if desired, and many kids show their appreciation to Surf by doing just that. A year at Surf, in either good placement or bad, makes it that much easier for a MM to climb up the ladder.

The first rung is valuable. To dismiss it as unimportant ignores a lot of reality for a significant number of potential MM participants.

If Surf surges to number 15, will you make the same contention of the then last-place corps, or is it just Surf?

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I'm sorry, Surf doesn't need me as a defender, but you're making general broad statements that few would argue.

Anyone here know what Surf's retention is? Eleran can probably tell us current fees but isn't it true that kids trying out for Surf know that they're getting a different experience than a typical touring corps?

Is there a presumption on the part of Surf MM's that they were going to get something different than they expected? If so, is that necessarily Surf's fault?

Is there any evidence that Surf did not give the MM's "...the best possible product..." it could?

Is there some indication this year that Surf didn't educate the MM's, or teach them to reach for a performance they didn't think they had in them?

Is all of that evidenced by placement?

If you're going to make such a contention based on placement, isn't it true that you could make the contention all the way up to second place?

The first rung on the ladder makes it easier to climb if desired, and many kids show their appreciation to Surf by doing just that. A year at Surf, in either good placement or bad, makes it that much easier for a MM to climb up the ladder.

The first rung is valuable. To dismiss it as unimportant ignores a lot of reality for a significant number of potential MM participants.

If Surf surges to number 15, will you make the same contention of the then last-place corps, or is it just Surf?

Top 12 would be nice...

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I'm sorry, Surf doesn't need me as a defender, but you're making general broad statements that few would argue.

Anyone here know what Surf's retention is? Eleran can probably tell us current fees but isn't it true that kids trying out for Surf know that they're getting a different experience than a typical touring corps?

Is there a presumption on the part of Surf MM's that they were going to get something different than they expected? If so, is that necessarily Surf's fault?

Is there any evidence that Surf did not give the MM's "...the best possible product..." it could?

Is there some indication this year that Surf didn't educate the MM's, or teach them to reach for a performance they didn't think they had in them?

Is all of that evidenced by placement?

If you're going to make such a contention based on placement, isn't it true that you could make the contention all the way up to second place?

The first rung on the ladder makes it easier to climb if desired, and many kids show their appreciation to Surf by doing just that. A year at Surf, in either good placement or bad, makes it that much easier for a MM to climb up the ladder.

The first rung is valuable. To dismiss it as unimportant ignores a lot of reality for a significant number of potential MM participants.

If Surf surges to number 15, will you make the same contention of the then last-place corps, or is it just Surf?

I can answer that part of the question via my niece's experience. Yes - the members absolutely know that the Surf experience is not the same as other "more competitive" corps. In her case and a number of her friends in the corps it was that fact that drew them to Surf. She was easily good enough to march in one of the big names but had no interest in doing so being happy with what she had in Surf. After her first year, one of her friends wanted to "move up" and went to Cadets. She ultimately returned to Surf before the season started saying that the "cult atmosphere" (her words) at Cadets was "nuts" and she was much happier with the environment at Surf.

Not everyone has the same goals/desires. I think Surf is fine doing what they are doing until THEY decide it's time to buckle down to move up.

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