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Malaguena Salerosa

Hardest show ever - Cadets 2015?

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I figured that BD was clearly going to come in 2nd or 3rd so I was pulling for Cadets big time. That switch to black was a good move I think. What a hornline! Congrats to Cadets on the Ott.

Absolutely, and the Cadets percussion came within 0.03 of capturing the Sanford.....19.48 to 19.45.....just wow!!

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Exactly. I'm sorry, but:

Scatter sets

Slow moving drill

Not playing anything difficult while moving

Not moving fast even while not playing

AND

Not much unison guard work

DO NOT EQUATE TO DIFFICULT - you could say that for this year too.

I agreed with you in everything except the last line.

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I agree! Less so for straightforward technical demand (even though there was that) than for having to nail the interpretation and sell the idea of show. It isn't so hard to sell a show about, say, West Side Story, because everyone knows WSS. It's a clear story arc that's immediately intelligible. (And every top corps has done a familiar theme before, so this isn't picking on anyone.) But a jazz-funk-dubstep take on Rite of Spring is out there, and it was forever until that corps was playing it well enough for it to even be clear, outside of the big jazz hits, that this is what they were doing.

I think this is well said, but the bolded passage does raise a question about DCI's scoring:

If it took "forever" for BD to actually make their show "clear", why is it that they were scored in first or second place (to Crown) at every show but one in 2013?

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BAHAHAHAHA. You're so funny.

Well, then make sure you mock TexasPRfan's post, as well.

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The Cadets have been passed by Crown and Bluecoats in the last five years. They got crushed by Bluecoats actually.

Bluecoats beat Cadets when it counted, but "crushed" is way too strong.

In seventeen meetings this season, Cadets beat Bluecoats thirteen times (most recently just two days before Finals), tied them once, and lost to them just three times.

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There are currently so many topics talking about BD (both the positives and negatives) that I wasn't where to post this, so apologies if this isn't the right place...

Keeping in mind how many people have been saying that BD plays to the judges, not the crowd.. I just saw this BD 360 video from championship week and I thought I'd quote the opening lines and just leave it here without any commentary from myself:

"On Saturday night, you guys fill up that stadium, you make it yours. We have to go out there tonight 100% committed, all of us and perform so hard, perform with so much heart that the magic from the show is literally dripping from our fingertips and the crowd and the judges can feel it. Let's go for the performance and let's go for the heart, let's for go for the emotional connection to the audience, let's go for the reason that we put the the show together: that the audience is here to watch it."

I also want to include the closing statements to the video:

"The 2015 story is an historical one, not because of scores and records, but because it displays the impact words on a page can have on our lives. Words, ink, these are the things that give us the power of imagination, and allow us to make the statement we all may need to say each and everyday, 'I wish'."

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there is a staleness that seems to set in on these show's so quickly with out drastic changes. If you watched the Power of Ten, with the new color's and the new ending at finals for the first time, you probably would have flipped your lid.

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Don't forget the Cavaliers in 2001 and 2007 if you think fast is hard. As well as 2003 for just being visually stupidly-difficult.

No. Sorry. The Cavaliers starting in 2000 became the masters of sleight-of-hand drill: all the most difficult playing is done when not moving, or moving very little, or only part of the corps that is playing the difficult music is at a standstill or mostly at a standstill. Most all of the really difficult drill the Cavies ever did was while no one was playing. The judges and fans ate it up. I just found it to be risk management, rather than truly trying something difficult.

What is always going to be the hardest is simultaneous demand. The Cadets have had that in spaces since forever. Unfortunate, though, that the judges don't really value it. A hip thrust or crab walk to them is movement enough to be simultaneous demand. But it's not even on the same planet of demand as marching backwards at 226 bpm while playing.

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There are currently so many topics talking about BD (both the positives and negatives) that I wasn't where to post this, so apologies if this isn't the right place...

Keeping in mind how many people have been saying that BD plays to the judges, not the crowd.. I just saw this BD 360 video from championship week and I thought I'd quote the opening lines and just leave it here without any commentary from myself:

"On Saturday night, you guys fill up that stadium, you make it yours. We have to go out there tonight 100% committed, all of us and perform so hard, perform with so much heart that the magic from the show is literally dripping from our fingertips and the crowd and the judges can feel it. Let's go for the performance and let's go for the heart, let's for go for the emotional connection to the audience, let's go for the reason that we put the the show together: that the audience is here to watch it."

I also want to include the closing statements to the video:

"The 2015 story is an historical one, not because of scores and records, but because it displays the impact words on a page can have on our lives. Words, ink, these are the things that give us the power of imagination, and allow us to make the statement we all may need to say each and everyday, 'I wish'."

What "I wish" is that BD would perform shows that were as demanding as Crown, Coats, or especially Cadets, and then see who actually is better. BD winning the Sanford is laughable, for example. Cadets book was harder, and the drill/movement demands on the Cadets drumline was arguably twice that of the Devils.

Yes, BD's show concept was great, and the staged design very clever. Much more coherent and impactful than the Cadets.

But to pretend that BD's show isn't aimed at the judges by deftly managing risk and playing to the sheets every single year is willful ignorance. They win because that's all they care about. Don't believe me? Talk to a MM or alumnus. Ever since the 80s, all they care about is the rings. Whatever it takes to get yet another, they'll do. That's not a huge knock on the organization, because they are able to consistently do that better than anyone, but to imply that they're somehow playing to the audience, like maybe Madison, is just silly.

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No. Sorry. The Cavaliers starting in 2000 became the masters of sleight-of-hand drill: all the most difficult playing is done when not moving, or moving very little, or only part of the corps that is playing the difficult music is at a standstill or mostly at a standstill. Most all of the really difficult drill the Cavies ever did was while no one was playing. The judges and fans ate it up. I just found it to be risk management, rather than truly trying something difficult.

What is always going to be the hardest is simultaneous demand. The Cadets have had that in spaces since forever. Unfortunate, though, that the judges don't really value it. A hip thrust or crab walk to them is movement enough to be simultaneous demand. But it's not even on the same planet of demand as marching backwards at 226 bpm while playing.

Pretty much.

At least to my eyes and ears, there seems to be more of a move back to "simultaneous demand" the past couple of years or so, but I want to see more of it. I'm much more impressed by a group that can do difficult music AND difficult drill at the same time. Novel concept.

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