Jeff Ream Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 Spot on. The Scouts Admin needs to tell that group of alums to sit down and shut up and let them run things the way they need to for the future good of the organization. People on their staff like KC are super creative and inventive, and are among the best at what they do....they need the freedom to unleash their ideas and be leaders of innovation again. That's really difficult to do when they are hamstrung by the feelings of the alumni base. And it might be good to ditch the "this is who we are" crap. I guarantee that in the 70s, there was no preaching about "staying true to our identity". The preaching was "We're here to win". The identity, the swagger, the mystique, came from always shooting to be the best. Being the crowd favorite was a byproduct, not the main goal. One problem as Cadets can attest to: $$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madcityscout Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 I do hope they won't fire any staff. An 85 is good enough to make finals most years and this is the first year for the new staff. Consistency is needed and I'm sure their staff is capable of putting out high quality top 10 products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madcityscout Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 Already hearing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 (edited) To an extent, money problems and program problems are two separate discussions. Could Madison use more operational funding? Sure, who can't. Will that guarantee them a top six placement? Nope. Plenty of non-finalist corps have bigger budgets than Madison, but don't get within shooting distance of 12th place most years. And of the corps that are now in the top tier, most of them developed their design and instructional talent over years or through their own ranks, rather than going out and buying hired guns (SCV is the most notable exception).That being said, I do agree that it's time for an artistic re-focus. No disrespect to him or his accomplishments, but to me, the Mason years set the organization back rather than driving them forward, They were trying to recapture elements of the 70s and 80s, rather than breaking the mold and redefining what an all-boy corps can look and act like now. They have a challenge in that they have to differentiate themselves from Cavaliers, but the two organizations have such different personae it shouldn't be that difficult. But something definitely has to change, and taking their eyes off the rear view mirror will be part of that. Edited August 15, 2016 by Slingerland 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirdcoast Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 (edited) . Edited August 22, 2016 by thirdcoast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirdcoast Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 (edited) . Edited August 22, 2016 by thirdcoast 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 (edited) Madison Scouts long time alums and their long time fans know this, but in case others here on DCP do not : The Madison Scouts have always returned to Finals the following season. They sometimes come back big too. 1972..... 14th 1973..... 4th 2002......14th 2003.......8th 2007......15th 2008......12th 2009.......15th 2010.......10th 2016.......13th 2017........? Edited August 28, 2016 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 There were two main issues with the show this year. 1. The show design was iffy and it never fully developed as it could have. 2. They were simply just not as clean as the groups around them. They weren't even as clean as last years corps. This is no slight to the members, but just the truth. Hopefully next year they'll have a better product. All that being said the show was still entertaining as heck and I enjoyed! Re Your point #2, and how it impacts #1: I believe it was Geo. Zingali himself that said 'Clean execution is good general effect'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nine White Russians Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Surprisingly, I agree with the second paragraph of your post. However, I think the first part is laughable. No one was restrained in creating an inferior product. Early on, I thought their show had a lot of potential, but it appears it was never realized. Let's not forget that they were beating Blue Knights early on...the same Blue Knights that ended up several places ahead. Let's not pretend it was all show design, either. Year on year, show design is relatively on a standard level. It's more rare than it is the norm that a unique design stands out. Let's be honest for a second, the ENTIRE Top 12 is not all that strong. If 130 men can't perform well enough to be out several other coed corps ahead of them, well...like I have said previously, they aren't drawing the best. Well I'm glad I got a laugh...that hasn't happened since I was last with my girlfriend. But basically what I was saying - and you may still disagree - is that the designers seem to feel the need to keep one foot in the past to appease the alumni base, which is so heel bent on keeping "the brand" or "the identity". That holds them back from being more creative. And remember that these days, GE is huge on the sheets. So yes, poor design or less than stellar design can definitely hurt. And I do agree with you that execution hurt them too - especially in the visual department. Seems like that's something that has plagued them for a long time. And I would put that more on the teaching side than on the talent side. I would also add that the horn line seems to have as much talent as ever, as well as the rest of the Corps. If you doubt me on that, how many I&E titles did we get this year? Something like 40 out of 60? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phan_of_Drumming Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Well I'm glad I got a laugh...that hasn't happened since I was last with my girlfriend. But basically what I was saying - and you may still disagree - is that the designers seem to feel the need to keep one foot in the past to appease the alumni base, which is so heel bent on keeping "the brand" or "the identity". That holds them back from being more creative. And remember that these days, GE is huge on the sheets. So yes, poor design or less than stellar design can definitely hurt. And I do agree with you that execution hurt them too - especially in the visual department. Seems like that's something that has plagued them for a long time. And I would put that more on the teaching side than on the talent side. I would also add that the horn line seems to have as much talent as ever, as well as the rest of the Corps. If you doubt me on that, how many I&E titles did we get this year? Something like 40 out of 60? 8 out of 24 [counting events, not people]. Blue Stars and Blue Devils each had four. SCV had three. Those were the only four corps in the Top 17 to participate this year, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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