StuStu Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Infringement is infringement, regardless of whether there is any profit involved. Profit can be relevant when it comes to determining damages caused by an infringing use. However, because proving damages for copyright infringement can be difficult, if a work is registered with the Library of Congress there are presumptive damages available under the Copyright Act. There are also very narrow exceptions for educational and charitable uses of copyrighted works, but I highly doubt DCI falls within them. I think the real issue of copyright enforcement for drum corps, like so many other areas, stems from the rise of digital reproduction and transmission. Never before has it been so easy to make wide-spread use of protected material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 (edited) Well non-profits have to have a mission stating that they do good. Belong to an old car club that is non-profit who claims an education service, In reality they donate a small percentage of what they take in to some educational places. Edit: Sorry, just realized that this is a bit of a hijack. Tax status has no affect what-so-ever on copyrights. Yea, but that's not the accurate description here. In this case the non-profit "donates" something above 20% of its annual gross revenue to charitable organizations (drum corps) who then turn around and use it, with other monies, to provide a platform for students to perform in competition. Most of those corps use up nearly all (or more than all) of their gross revenue in that mission and make no "profit" themselves (i.e. have little or nothing left over). In this sense, drum corps is a highly "efficient" charity compared to many (most?) charities. Edited August 12, 2015 by garfield 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowtown Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 The simple solution to this; produce the DVDs in China and then sell them from there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 For profit and non profit makes no difference. Schools often perform musicals, but they cannot sell the recordings and if they should be granted permission, still have to abide by copyright laws. Church groups have to be careful when broadcasting on radio or TV that copyright laws are being obeyed. If you look at end credits of church services that are televised, they will include permission for music used which they have to do for legal reasons. The same holds true for organizations such as the Metropolitan Opera which is also non-profit. We also need to remember composers do have a right to decide what can be done with their music and what royalties they require. It is their music, and while the common good is important to remember, we can't forget not all composers are wealthy. BD used Stephen Sondheim's music and I'm sure he's not poor, but the lesser known composers are probably not laughing all the way to the bank. I hope DCI can resolve the issues. I will be having a real "black" Friday if I can't watch the 2015 finals on Thanksgiving night (a tradition of mine is to watch the newest DVD on Thanksgiving), but not at the expense of the composers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 The simple solution to this; produce the DVDs in China and then sell them from there That would be a simple solution....in 1996. This is the digital age. The simple solution doesn't involve physical media at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDz Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 <snip> We also need to remember composers do have a right to decide what can be done with their music and what royalties they require. It is their music, and while the common good is important to remember, we can't forget not all composers are wealthy. BD used Stephen Sondheim's music and I'm sure he's not poor, but the lesser known composers are probably not laughing all the way to the bank. <end snip> The composer also has the right to say that he/she does not want the creation altered in any way. And if there's one thing drum corps all do, it's alter ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 The composer also has the right to say that he/she does not want the creation altered in any way. And if there's one thing drum corps all do, it's alter ! I was arranging all of the music for the HS MB I work with for a number of years, and one year we decded to use Bernstein's "Chister Psalms" and some of the "Mass"...the rights agreement was VERY specific on what we could and could not do to the music. OTOH, when we did Tan Dun's music from "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" another year, it was carte blanche, and he (I was told it was actually him who signed off for us) only charged us something like $75 for the entire show rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 The composer also has the right to say that he/she does not want the creation altered in any way. And if there's one thing drum corps all do, it's alter ! From what I understand, that's what happened to Phantom in 2008. I think it was Tjeknavorian that complained (beginning of the 2nd piece) about how his music had been rearranged, and thus withdrew his permission. And then the Bernstein estate had a small fit regarding the '09 Troopers and Cadets. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 From what I understand, that's what happened to Phantom in 2008. I think it was Tjeknavorian that complained (beginning of the 2nd piece) about how his music had been rearranged, and thus withdrew his permission. And then the Bernstein estate had a small fit regarding the '09 Troopers and Cadets. Mike I always wondered about that myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peel Paint Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 over60, on 11 Aug 2015 - 7:15 PM, said: It's my contention that because of the DCI performances, many fans are exposed to music and other performance material they've never known before and are therefore likely to purchase commercial CDs and DVDs from professional performing groups of this newly discovered material that they never would have been aware of without seeing the DCI performances, thus providing future royalties to the copyright holders. In effect, the DCI corps are providing free advertising for the copyright owners whose material they perform during the season. Much of this music is obscure to the general public and the copyright owners should be thankful for the added national exposure of their works by the DCI corps. Personally, I became interested in classical music in the early 1970s mostly because of Phantom Regiment and I have spent a lot of money in the last 40+ years buying commercial classical CDs, DVDs and attending professional perfomances where royalties are paid. Let's remove this unnecessary legal burden from the corps and DCI who are only trying to provide a learning experience to the members and entertainment for the fans. There has to be a way to get an exemption for DCI. Anyone know a copyright attorney who might be sympathetic to presenting DCI's case? While I agree with you that I have purchased stuff based on the kinds of exposure you have in mind, seeing drum corps etc. performance as advertising for original performances, 1. Part of the reason the rights-holders are getting more aggressive is that their money is drying up because less music performance (recordings and sheet music) is being purchased. 2. What you have in mind would entail a major revision of the principles of copyright law. It's politically unworkable. All the music, TV, and movie interests, all of whom contribute heavily to US politicians, would stop this deader than a corpse. It wouldn't get out of committee in Congress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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