over60

Copyrights And Common Sense

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Over60, do you recall Madison Scouts 2011?

http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/forums/index.php/topic/152151-the-challenges-of-music-licensing-and/

They thought they were going to be okay on "Empire State of Mind." Then State Farm wanted the music exclusively for their commercial, and the Scouts had to drop it from the videos. A similar situation came up with 30 or 45 seconds of music from Phantom 2008 where the composer was okay with licensing his music but not okay with video sync rights, if I recall correctly. I'm sure there have been other examples. Planning ahead is great, but it doesn't always work.

Well, as I interpret Michael Boo's description of the "Empire State" affair, the license holder said to DCI and/or the Scouts, essentially: "Someone else [i.e, State Farm, but the license holder wasn't allowed to say] already has an exclusive hold on the video rights, but they might grant an exception for you." And this was in late 2010 or early 2011. So DCI and the Scouts waited, and they only got a firm "no" in late spring. The Scouts decided that was too late to change their program, for which they already had the rights to arrange, perform, and audio record "Empire State of MInd". DCI and the Scouts did not find out why the video rights had been withheld until they saw the State Farm commercial in September.

However, DCI was not entirely forthcoming with the information they did have. All summer long, fans were told that DCI hoped that the video rights to "Empire State of Mind" would become available in time for the video. Maybe they did, but in Michael Boo's post, Chris Komnick is quoted as saying that DCI knew the answer was a "definitive 'no'" by May. The end result is the same, but it does add to the perception that DCI has a hard time communicating clearly with its customers. (Compare also DCI's statements about the Tresona affair with Music for All's recent statement.)

Phantom 2008 is a strange case. Either someone at DCI dropped the ball (thinking they had the video rights to the Tjeknavorian song when they didn't), or the agreement with the license holder including an unusual clause given them the right to revoke the license after the fact. DCI actually shipped that video to customers before the problem was announced.

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It is regrettable however that inventors ( in this case inventors of music creations) can not see fit to voluntarily allow educational institutions be able to utilize their works in a mutually agreed to fashion.

If a composer or publisher grants gratis rights to educational institutions and non-profits, how will they be compensated for their work, considering that almost every musical ensemble in the United States is either attached to an educational institution or not-for-profit?

The "mutual agreement" is dollars in exchange for rights. Rights are not expensive in most cases.

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DVDs are back! Go to the DCI store to see it.

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DVDs are back! Go to the DCI store to see it.

It's all back, Legacy, Essentials, 09-14 Blue Rays, the works.

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It's all back, Legacy, Essentials, 09-14 Blue Rays, the works.

Praise be!!

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However, DCI was not entirely forthcoming with the information they did have. All summer long, fans were told that DCI hoped that the video rights to "Empire State of Mind" would become available in time for the video. Maybe they did, but in Michael Boo's post, Chris Komnick is quoted as saying that DCI knew the answer was a "definitive 'no'" by May. The end result is the same, but it does add to the perception that DCI has a hard time communicating clearly with its customers. (Compare also DCI's statements about the Tresona affair with Music for All's recent statement.)

I hesitate to criticize the Madison Scouts, but I do feel the corps org was deliberately misleading about the situation all summer - I distinctly remember them releasing information as if it were still a work in progress, rather than a fait accompli.

Mike

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The "mutual agreement" is dollars in exchange for rights. Rights are not expensive in most cases.

It is true that some composer are "friendly" towards smaller organisation...

That is not the case of them all.... And "rights" can sometime be in the range of 1000$-5000$ to perform 1 to 2 minutes of music.

In my case... we do perform 8-10 time a year in front of usualy 100-200 spectators, without receiving any type of monetary compensation. In fact it does cost the corps 3000$ a day to be on the road.

So... we are sometime ask to pay more to play 1 minutes of music / 10 times during a summer, than what most of our staff gets to teach 600 hours during that same summer.

Yes... we change repertoire to adapt to that new reality. I am writing to let all know true numbers. And of course if you are a million dollar organisation it is a different problem. But if you are a 5 figures drum corps, rights holders should also bend a bit in the process and be reasonable.

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Well, as I interpret Michael Boo's description of the "Empire State" affair, the license holder said to DCI and/or the Scouts, essentially: "Someone else [i.e, State Farm, but the license holder wasn't allowed to say] already has an exclusive hold on the video rights, but they might grant an exception for you." And this was in late 2010 or early 2011. So DCI and the Scouts waited, and they only got a firm "no" in late spring. The Scouts decided that was too late to change their program, for which they already had the rights to arrange, perform, and audio record "Empire State of MInd". DCI and the Scouts did not find out why the video rights had been withheld until they saw the State Farm commercial in September.

However, DCI was not entirely forthcoming with the information they did have. All summein 08 the composerr long, fans were told that DCI hoped that the video rights to "Empire State of Mind" would become available in time for the video. Maybe they did, but in Michael Boo's post, Chris Komnick is quoted as saying that DCI knew the answer was a "definitive 'no'" by May. The end result is the same, but it does add to the perception that DCI has a hard time communicating clearly with its customers. (Compare also DCI's statements about the Tresona affair with Music for All's recent statement.)

Phantom 2008 is a strange case. Either someone at DCI dropped the ball (thinking they had the video rights to the Tjeknavorian song when they didn't), or the agreement with the license holder including an unusual clause given them the right to revoke the license after the fact. DCI actually shipped that video to customers before the problem was announced.

in 08 the composer changed their mind. it was something in the agreement

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Well, as I interpret Michael Boo's description of the "Empire State" affair, the license holder said to DCI and/or the Scouts, essentially: "Someone else [i.e, State Farm, but the license holder wasn't allowed to say] already has an exclusive hold on the video rights, but they might grant an exception for you." And this was in late 2010 or early 2011. So DCI and the Scouts waited, and they only got a firm "no" in late spring. The Scouts decided that was too late to change their program, for which they already had the rights to arrange, perform, and audio record "Empire State of MInd". DCI and the Scouts did not find out why the video rights had been withheld until they saw the State Farm commercial in September.

However, DCI was not entirely forthcoming with the information they did have. All summer long, fans were told that DCI hoped that the video rights to "Empire State of Mind" would become available in time for the video. Maybe they did, but in Michael Boo's post, Chris Komnick is quoted as saying that DCI knew the answer was a "definitive 'no'" by May. The end result is the same, but it does add to the perception that DCI has a hard time communicating clearly with its customers. (Compare also DCI's statements about the Tresona affair with Music for All's recent statement.)

Phantom 2008 is a strange case. Either someone at DCI dropped the ball (thinking they had the video rights to the Tjeknavorian song when they didn't), or the agreement with the license holder including an unusual clause given them the right to revoke the license after the fact. DCI actually shipped that video to customers before the problem was announced.

I wonder if the problem was indeed an exclusive rights issue for a specific year, if it's possible DCI could release the full show now with no problems; or could they have even released them the following calendar year with little hurdles?

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I hesitate to criticize the Madison Scouts, but I do feel the corps org was deliberately misleading about the situation all summer - I distinctly remember them releasing information as if it were still a work in progress, rather than a fait accompli.

Mike

That's how I recall the situation as well. IMO DCI & Scouts both kind of dropped the ball communicating with customers, in a way that could easily lead one to think they were being misleading to possibly sell more product.

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