Fran Haring Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 (edited) I figure Fran can create the Ski Mask Brigade from Parts Unknown doing "Soup! It's what's in my bowl for Lunch!" as a show and I can compete against him with the Big W Experimental Corpkestra from The Burning Man Festival doing "The Power of 7". Since the Ski Mask Cadets have, indeed, done one performance in their history... in the spring of 1981... they technically could re-enter the fray as an alumni corps. One minor "home base" correction, though... the Ghost Riders are from Parts Unknown. The Ski Mask Cadets were/are based in someone's basement an undisclosed location in New Jersey. Edited September 23, 2015 by Fran Haring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) I can tell you - there's not a whole lot of HS band in Canada. But I thought we wanted to grow Drum Corps in both countries? What's wrong with more drum corps, folks? People complain about only 3 corps competing at a DCA show - what's wrong with having three more there in a youth division? What's wrong with getting kids *and their families* into the DCA brand at an early age? What's wrong with having kids actually exposed to the DCA competitive corps when they are young so they can gain a respect for them, and grow a desire to be part of it? If the HS band scene is the answer to all our questions - why are we even having this discussion? Clearly, that model isn't working. So instead of attacking status quo when it comes to instrumentation, let's tear down the status quo with regard to assumptions like "the high school bands are all we need for kids". For all that Lee's questions are unworkable, he made you think outside the box. Well - let's do some more of that. I know there are few if any marching bands in Canada, for sure. Nobody thinks it is a bad idea to start small corps...it is just not all that realistic in today's society to think it is going to happen on any large enough scale to make much of a difference numerically speaking. I'm ot convinced there is all that much interest among kids and families to support that effort, DCI has started Soundsport to provide a less intensive and less expensive opportunity for startups. I hope it succeeds. The smaller and younger corps like those in the Garden State Circuit I am familiar with here in NJ died off 1) as the operational costs escalated and 2) kids no longer bothered to join. I am all for changing the status quo. However. it has to make sense and have a fighting chance to succeed. Better marketing by DCA to the HS band world will help...the fact that the ages of DCA members get younger proves that it is working to some extent, and maybe that is the best that can be expected in 2015. The marching/music scene these days is huge...drum corps is a very important facet, but not the ONLY facet.. , Edited September 24, 2015 by MikeD 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 That's all a good thing too! But are there people who do want to compete and could able to form some type of 35+ member "master's" corps using the loose guideline I laid out? I don't know. It doesn't have to be an alumni corps. It could be, but does not have to be. Again, this is the beauty of the proposal. I did this in response to the comments that the DCA corps are "getting younger". Many folks who would like to stay on can't physically do it. Some are lucky and end up on staff, as Drum Majors, or as sideline players. Others are out of the loop. I offer it as a solution to get the "older" people back in the mix competitively in some fashion. And by "older"... I did say Hop may indirectly have the answer on the age cutoff- 25 and older might be the "older" people we might be looking at for the shows to be designed for. Food for thought here. raise the mini corps size Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 raise the mini corps size It is possible if one wants to-- but I think they serve a different purpose. Maybe the better question might be-- should there possibly be more involvement for these groups at contests? Where I'm going, Jeff, is this, and I think you know where I'm coming from: For all the saying that there is a problem, it it as bad as some people think it is? I think this is part of the issue. Everyone is concerned and worried, but are the problems as gigantic as they are made out to be, or is the answer smaller tweaks to what is in place? I really don't know! Certain things everyone can agree upon from every wild direction, I think: -Everyone wants DCA to be successful in the long term and be able to sustain itself. -Everyone would like it to be genuinely all-age in some way, shape, or form. Not to just exist as a proving ground for kids who want to get into a World Class DCI team. It can and should be a lot more than that, and I think it is.. but is it articulated well enough for people to buy into that, and are the trends that bad? From my personal experience, Westshore must have been some kind of freakish thing from 1979-1984, because we were very much like what we see now on the field in terms of age. I marched from 16 to 21 at Westshore, my sister from 15-18. I wanted to go back later but there were various issues at play when I was 25 and 29. Just thinking this is not as big an issue as some think because this has been an issue and no one was freaking out in 1982 and 1983, well... unless you got beat by a "buncha kids". (Who Pepe told Frank D. 'could play!!!', BTW...) - I *think* this also can be agreed upon, Everyone would like more teams participating, even though the number has seemed kind of constant since roughly 1970 from 15-20ish, not counting the Minis and Alumni. But how is the question? DCI has a grassroots operation in place, DCA to an extent. Can DCA do better, and how? I'm trying to sift though all of the sentiments and find a lot of common ground from many directions, even though some directions seem to be opposing at first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I can tell you - there's not a whole lot of HS band in Canada. But I thought we wanted to grow Drum Corps in both countries? What's wrong with more drum corps, folks? Nothing is wrong with that... until you start getting specific. Then you get the "not in my backyard" reaction from people with vested interests in existing groups. Part of that pushback is because DCI and DCA are not currently built for the kind of corps you envision. DCI is primarily here for their member corps, the 22 world class units. DCA is primarily here for their member corps as well. Both have outreach to other units (and other types of units such as SoundSport, alumni or minicorps), but not in the substantive business arrangements that member corps enjoy with these circuits. Your idea could work if the interest builds from the bottom up. If enough junior corps are knocking at the DCA door, eventually someone will answer like they did with class A, the South and Central regions, alumni and minicorps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 -Everyone would like it to be genuinely all-age in some way, shape, or form. Not to just exist as a proving ground for kids who want to get into a World Class DCI team. That may be a common wish. But we should acknowledge that competition will naturally drive field corps toward performing the type of shows we see today, which ask more physically from the musicians and much more so from the auxiliary. DCA will ultimately be suited only for those of athletic age and the few who retain remarkable physical fitness beyond those years (with possible exceptions for pit and gifted soloists). Another potential conflict might arise if competition drives DCA contestants to extend rehearsal schedules beyond the traditional "weekend warrior" format, rendering many of the potential marchers over the age of 22 ineligible due to inability to balance work and corps. - I *think* this also can be agreed upon, Everyone would like more teams participating, even though the number has seemed kind of constant since roughly 1970 from 15-20ish, not counting the Minis and Alumni. But how is the question? DCI has a grassroots operation in place, DCA to an extent. Can DCA do better, and how? DCA, like DCI (or any circuit), has a business model that inevitably supports a certain number of corps. To have more corps, the business model must change. For example, the original DCA business model supported 10 corps, eventually increased to 12. Over time, the number of corps declined to about that number (13). DCA changed the model to incorporate the class A concept, and the DCA activity grew by a few corps. Some years later, corps from other regions expressed interest in DCA, eventually leading to DCA changing the model to reach out to those corps, provided they come to championships. However, the number of member corps was not expanded. DCA grew by a few more corps, but it now looks like that growth might not be sustained. How can DCA grow further? Maybe by encouraging a level of participation that does not require championship attendance. If corps in distant regions could focus on events in their own region instead of the costly journey to the Northeast, maybe those corps would become stronger and more numerous. Then, maybe those regional events would become better attended and more numerous, making it possible for even more corps to develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Denzer Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 Hop just announced via facebook that the age limit for C2 is being lowered to 23......so pretty much a junior corps competing as a senior corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 raise the mini corps size Take it step further...adopt SoundSport/WGI Winds rules and call it a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) Take it step further...adopt SoundSport/WGI Winds rules and call it a day. Add more events for them to participate in as well if they wish! Again before the contest- whatever. if the dynamic requires younger people, find a positive opportunity for the older folks to compete if they wish to do so more than once a year. Edited September 24, 2015 by BigW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I agree wholeheartedly with whoever raised the "not in my backyard" comment. The first objection brought up by Guardling was that it could hurt the existing corps. A completely unrealistic attack on the idea, but if a competing DCA corps really is so weak that a fledgling youth corps of 12-18 year olds could pull members away from it, there are bigger problems in play and that corps is probably going to die anyway. I know the HS bands contribute members - but it's not the panacea. There must be thousands of bands in the USA but a handful of drum corps are competing at the highest levels. What does this say? It's just a small percentage of those kids that are interested enough to go into drum corps. It's not where they come from. What if kids grew up in the drum corps activity? DCI - sorry but it's too expensive for members and organizations alike. Young corps have a much better chance of being financially responsible with the DCA, weekend only model. And yes - it can be done, I know because we've done it in an area with virtually no high school band scene to support us. If some folks here would desist from the noisy negativist mantra and actually roll up their sleeves to find a way to make it happen - good stuff can follow. Grow drum corps. Try folks. Try.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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