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The Cavaliers' Recent Fall in the Standings


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So now that we have the benefit of a few years of hindsight, is it possible to determine what has happened to The Cavaliers since 2011? Standings-wise, of course, the 2012 show fell off the relative cliff, and the corps hasn't really climbed back up since.

For those who watch much more closely than I, has it seemed to be more the case of new brass, new drill, combination of everything? (I assume losing your hall of fame drill writer, brass arranger and drum arranger might play in to it - is it that simple?)

Mike

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I assume losing your hall of fame drill writer, brass arranger and drum arranger might play in to it - is it that simple

Mike McIntosh wrote drums for them in 2011 when they won the percussion title. He's still there writing.

But yes the Cavaliers of the 2000s was a completely different staff (McIntosh was there through '03).

I believe the emergence of Bluecoats and Crown have taken away from them as well. People travel more to be in a corps than the more "regional corps" of the past.

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But they didn't lose all of those designers at once after 2011. It was only Gaines that they lost.

It seems to me:

- the design was a mess (central theme plus supporting elements) in 2012.

- the design was much improved (though not competitive) in 2013, but the 2012 finish may have taken a toll on talent.

- vast improvement all around in 2014, though still not a competitive design (could have finished 7th with a more competent Regiment design).

- the design went back to 2012 or worse in 2015, though some performance elements improved.

It seems they're still in a talent funk from 2012 relative to where they stood for the couple decades prior. Then you add some design woes on top...

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So now that we have the benefit of a few years of hindsight, is it possible to determine what has happened to The Cavaliers since 2011? Standings-wise, of course, the 2012 show fell off the relative cliff, and the corps hasn't really climbed back up since.

For those who watch much more closely than I, has it seemed to be more the case of new brass, new drill, combination of everything? (I assume losing your hall of fame drill writer, brass arranger and drum arranger might play in to it - is it that simple?)

Mike

To put it broadly, combination of everything: design struggles, losing key staffers and new designers not finding their stride yet, talent drop off, etc.

As others have said, Crown's rise to perennial contender since 2012 (in those four years from 2012-2015 Crown placed below 2nd only once), and Bluecoats rise doesn't help, but more importantly I think Madison has steadily been improving, as have Blue Knights: the top is getting better, the middle is getting better, and Cavaliers stumbled last year.

If we're being analytical, Cavaliers were improving after the relative debacle of 2012's show but somehow made a huge misstep with their 2015 design. Looking at recaps their percussion was their weak link score-wise at 2015 Finals though was a strength in quarters & semis so maybe they had a bad run Finals night. I don't think I ever saw Cavaliers' show in 2015, or at least not all of it, so I can't speak to what happened last year but they seemed to take a significant step backwards from their 2014 show (which I really liked) across the board

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If we're being analytical, Cavaliers were improving after the relative debacle of 2012's show but somehow made a huge misstep with their 2015 design. Looking at recaps their percussion was their weak link score-wise at 2015 Finals though was a strength in quarters & semis so maybe they had a bad run Finals night. I don't think I ever saw Cavaliers' show in 2015, or at least not all of it, so I can't speak to what happened last year but they seemed to take a significant step backwards from their 2014 show (which I really liked) across the board

They were 8th-10th in all captions, so i don't think it was the percussion section that brought them down.

It was a disjointed program that was executed decently. The illness throughout the corps didn't help either. Opened the door for Phantom and Madison to place ahead of them.

On paper pre-season it seemed that this program could have gotten them back on track and be entertaining/exciting like the 2014 program, but it never gained much traction and ended up being different that I had imagined it would/could be from the program announcement.

Next year will be very interesting to see how aggressive they go. BD, Crown, Cadets, and Coats aren't going anywhere and SCV is a perennial 4th-5th place corps. And the way BK is moving its going to be tough for them to get back in the Top 5. Hope they can, or at the least make 5th-8th a super tight race.

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I think it was a combination of things.

Design choices weren't always the best once they transferred from paper to performance.

There were clearly performance issues in some captions. Some would argue they aren't attracting the same talent, although I think the talent level is still very high.

In 2014, I think the health concerns were a major factor in their final placement.

There's also the obvious issue that other corps just had stronger products that were performed better, which is beyond the control of the members of any corps.

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A misstep in design one summer can set a corps back a number of years, particularly in that 6-10 placement range. Corps like Boston and Blue Stars understand that same pain. It is been 10 years since Madison had a top six finish and more than 15 since they were a consistent top half of finals corps. When you drop, it can be very difficult to get back to where you were.

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To put it broadly, combination of everything: design struggles, losing key staffers and new designers not finding their stride yet, talent drop off, etc.

As others have said, Crown's rise to perennial contender since 2012 (in those four years from 2012-2015 Crown placed below 2nd only once), and Bluecoats rise doesn't help, but more importantly I think Madison has steadily been improving, as have Blue Knights: the top is getting better, the middle is getting better, and Cavaliers stumbled last year.

If we're being analytical, Cavaliers were improving after the relative debacle of 2012's show but somehow made a huge misstep with their 2015 design. Looking at recaps their percussion was their weak link score-wise at 2015 Finals though was a strength in quarters & semis so maybe they had a bad run Finals night. I don't think I ever saw Cavaliers' show in 2015, or at least not all of it, so I can't speak to what happened last year but they seemed to take a significant step backwards from their 2014 show (which I really liked) across the board

I'm with you on the 2014 show... I thought it was great, with that "Cavalier vibe" to it.

I liked the 2015 show, but not as much as '14.

Not sure it cost them a higher Finals placement, but I'm guessing the late-season illness that swept through the corps in 2015 didn't help, especially since it happened during the stretch run.

They lost some rehearsal time and/or couldn't rehearse with a full corps, while every other corps was putting it into a higher gear. My girlfriend and I attended one of their rehearsals, just before DCI East, and the corps still had several members on the sidelines that day.

Edited by Fran Haring
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Michael Gaines.

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A misstep in design one summer can set a corps back a number of years, particularly in that 6-10 placement range. Corps like Boston and Blue Stars understand that same pain. It is been 10 years since Madison had a top six finish and more than 15 since they were a consistent top half of finals corps. When you drop, it can be very difficult to get back to where you were.

We could add Santa Clara Vanguard to the list too. SCV hasn't really seriously competed for a Championship in over 15 years now. Since they won their last title in 1999, they have averaged 5th place , and only once have they medaled in the last 15 years. Yes, its hard in DCI to move up the ranks... for reasons unique to DCI/ DCA Drum Corps and cited many times before on here ( so no reason to regurgitate it anymore it would seem to me ). There is an institutional pecking order in DCI whereby significant placement movement is the exception, rather than the rule. Will Pacific Crest, Jersey Surf, Mandarins, Pioneer, et al ever make the DCI Finals Top 12 in our lifetime ? Not even if Science finds a way to have you live 2,000 more years, will it happen under the current Drum Corps system. We all know this here too, if we are honest and frank with ourselves.

Edited by BRASSO
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