BRASSO Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) I also believe at least another will have a "meteoric" rise of success akin to the 1985 startup from Indiana [10th to first in 6 years, I believe]. Star of Indiana was a fast shooting star, and an equally fast flame out too ( by design ). Will DCI have another Corps funded by a guy that was the 2nd wealthiest guy in his state most years at the time ? Perhaps. But unlikely, and I wouldn't bet the farm on it, thats for sure. First off, there arn't that many multi millionaires out there, willing to underwrite an operation like a DCI World Class Div. Drum Corps that costs WAY more to underwrite today than what Star's millionaire funder, Bill Cook, could underwrite back 20-30 years ago. Edited October 16, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Regarding a corps having a meteoric rise, I saw Crown for the first time in 1994, the year after Stars last performance in DCI. While I am sure I enjoyed their performance, I probably did not expect that one day they would win a title. I probably did not think it would happen until 1999. It is still possible for a corps to have a rise and a new corps could come along and wow us all. Madison may regain steam if last year is any indication, BAC could become a stronger competitor. Things do change, even in drum corps. It may not happen soon, but it could happen. Back to Cavies, others have mentioned some of my thoughts regarding some of Cavies issues, but I do think Cavies could have a rebirth with Chris Lugo as executive director. I know many have high hopes for his tenure, perhaps a new Jeff Fiedler. Chris marched during some of Cavies glory years, was involved with the corps during some challenging moments, loves and knows the activity, and certainly loves the Cavies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 Depends on how you do it. BD transitioned from Wayne doing all the brass arranging to now it being Shawn Glyde (who was a pitster in 84 with me), and John Meehan took over the brass cap head duties a long time ago. I'll agree that Wayne ScoJo, and Chandler are getting long in the tooth, but they're 1) still producing good, solid, and winning work and 2) if you think they haven't been training their replacements for a LONG time, you're wrong. They found the formula that works decades ago, and anyone coming up through the instructional ranks will be on board with that. When the big guys leave, I don't think we'll see that much of a placing issue. I totally agree with you, but the Blue Devils are a bit of an anomaly. Most DCI organizations don't have 4 fully-funded marching units (A corps, B corps, C corps, International Corps), and all the other peripheral activities (Wind Symphony, BD Entertainment, WGI Winter Guard, etc.) that the Blue Devils have. Having such a large organization allows them to have more full-time and part-time employees than most drum corps, which certainly allows for more mentoring and passing on of the methods and skills for continuing tradition and advanced show design. BD has made their transitions smoothly because of this, and they are to be commended, but most drum corps are lucky to just have 1 corps, 1 staff, a good admin team, and solid alumni and fan base. When the Cavaliers lost Gaines, Saucedo, and others, they likely didn't have a "second string" if you will, learning from the masters and waiting for their time. So the loss of key staff over a period of time for most corps can be devastating. There are instances of it working super well, too. But take a look at SCV. They managed to grab Phantom Regiment's brass arranger, Phantom's percussion staff, and the Bluecoats brass staff -- all within 2 years. Many thought they would become a super corps. Well, I do think the marchers are super, and their shows are very cool and I love them; but competitively they have not made that push to top 3, top 2. Good teaching matters. But chemistry among a staff also matters. Getting talented and hard-working marchers and musicians matters. Having funds matters. Having facilities and good instruments matters. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) Winning matters... the most of all. The Blue Devils have collected more winning revenues ... by far.... than any other DCI Corps, the last 40 years. As a result of these winning revenues, they have been able to grow their organization beyond anything else any other DCI Corps has. Under the current system that can be expected to remain unchanged, the BD will separate themselves even MORE organizationally over all other Corps over the next 40 years, as they can be expected to continue on this winning domination pace and thus revenue generating way, over the next 40 years as well. Edited October 18, 2015 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmc5682 Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Can't compare " sports teams" with DCI Drum Corps ( for a myriad of reasons ). All competitive sports in the world have sensible transfer policies in place. DCI has none. As such, DCI/DCA Drum Corps are singularly unique in the world in this regard. As good an organization as BD has been the last 4 decades, could they have won as many titles as they have if they were subjected to the same transfer policies that all sports in the world have ? Of course not. No " team " has dominated a " sport " like BD has in DCI. You can't find such domination by any other " team " in any other " sport " in the world the last 40 years. ( and BD will continue to dominate over the next 40 years in my opinion in this system if unchanged. ) I've resigned myself to this, as the prevailing sentiment sems to be that developing reasonable and sensible transfer policies that all sports leagues have ( from town Little League, Pop Warner, Soccer, etc all the way up to the Colleges and then even to the Pros ) is unthinkable. Ok, so BD's domination of the DCI Titles ( or as Runners Up ) it will be, for the next 40-80 years too. It is what it is, and so it will continue to be, imo. Lets face it, when it comes to DCI Championships ( or Runners up ) its really the Blue Devils................ and then everybody else. Brasso, If you think MLB has a fair (you did say all major sports) and sensible trade policy you are not looking very closely. My poor Oakland A's are doing pretty well some years (not this year) despite having a payroll 1/5 to that of the Yankees, Giants, Boston etc.. The NBA and it's luxury tax also make it difficult for teams in small markets to complete year in and year out. In both leagues you have teams like the Yankees and Lakers/Boston who have way more titles over the years than everyone else. It is hardly an even playing field. With drum corps it is even more difficult, as the members pay to join the "team". If you are going to have to pay a few thousand bucks, and you are a struggling college student, I can understand why you might want to pick a corps that has a style you like that also has a shot at a medal. I only had to pay 300 bucks total each year to march in Freelancers in 83 and 84, but I knew after 83 we would never get into the top 6 because we lost so many members to BD and SCV to march their last year or two of eligibility at the end of each year. I am sure the same things happens to the "non elite" corps now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim K Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) Winning matters... the most of all. The Blue Devils have collected more winning revenues ... by far.... than any other DCI Corps, the last 40 years. As a result of these winning revenues, they have been able to grow their organization beyond anything else any other DCI Corps has. Under the current system that can be expected to remain unchanged, the BD will separate themselves even MORE organizationally over all other Corps over the next 40 years, as they can be expected to continue on this winning domination pace and thus revenue generating way, over the next 40 years as well. While I do not see BD imploding any time soon, and I agree organizationally BD is exceptional (this has to be admitted even if you're not always a fan of their shows), the current system in overall drum corps could be in trouble, depending on the answer to this question: is the next generation of leaders being nurtured? I'm not talking about design, arrangement, instruction, but leadership. I ask this as a question because I know there are often people in the wings who may not get a great deal of press, but overall most decisions are made by the same people who have been around a while, and by and large they've done great things, but when some step aside, that could be the end of the one of thecorps as we know them, including at least one major player. Edited October 18, 2015 by Tim K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis35 Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) Winning matters... the most of all. The Blue Devils have collected more winning revenues ... by far.... than any other DCI Corps, the last 40 years. As a result of these winning revenues, they have been able to grow their organization beyond anything else any other DCI Corps has. Under the current system that can be expected to remain unchanged, the BD will separate themselves even MORE organizationally over all other Corps over the next 40 years, as they can be expected to continue on this winning domination pace and thus revenue generating way, over the next 40 years as well. While I agree with the over-arching premise of this statement, we need to be careful about saying that because BD wins is why they collect more revenue. Winning DCI shows doesn't give you a bunch more revenue than does coming in 2nd, 3rd, or frankly top 8. This was, in large part, the wishes of the G7 and TOC ideas. The goal was that all those corps did get paid more, but that they were splitting equally the profits. The bigger point is that revenue generated from gate fees etc. do not account for much of the bottom-line budget for these corps. The Blue Devils make a ton of cash running a Bingo game 7 days a week (because California allows them to). In Ohio the Bluecoats can only run theirs 2 days per week. Tour dues account for a good bit, as does alumni giving, other fundraisers, sponsorship, and more. The Blue Devils grew their organization not by winning shows (although that helps with reputation, no doubt) but by establishing great fundraisers, partnerships, sponsorship, dues, local youth activities, etc. Edited October 18, 2015 by jwillis35 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) . The Blue Devils grew their organization not by winning shows (although that helps with reputation, no doubt) but by establishing great fundraisers, partnerships, sponsorship, dues, local youth activities, etc. I suppose this is like asking which came first, the chicken or the egg. Fundraising success for example, is directly tied to winning. In most sports enterprises, fund raising revenues increase the more you win. Conversely, generally speaking, fund raising revenues tend to decrease with less successful winning. . Sponsors likewise become easier to attract and maintain with the winning ( and less successful competitors find sponsorship attraction and retention more of a yearly challenge ). Dues can be increased with the winning as well. Fees charged in Seminars, merchandise sales, etc. all increase with the winnings. All of this is simply Economics 101 & Business 101 Theory in its full glory and in full view in its real world application. BD was not always this superior to other Corps in their organizational empowerment. lest we forget. Winning, above all else however, enabled them to separate themselves from the pack organizationally and revenue generating wise over the last 4 decades. With fundraising, with partnerships, with sponsorships, with recruiting of superior marcher talent, with salaries paid to staffers,with their superior branding, with their development of System Blue etc.... ALL OF IT...... came principally and directly as the result of their early and repetitive winnings in DCI, imo. Edited October 18, 2015 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) . Edited October 18, 2015 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) While I agree with the over-arching premise of this statement, we need to be careful about saying that because BD wins is why they collect more revenue. Winning DCI shows doesn't give you a bunch more revenue than does coming in 2nd, 3rd, or frankly top 8. This was, in large part, the wishes of the G7 and TOC ideas. The goal was that all those corps did get paid more, but that they were splitting equally the profits. The bigger point is that revenue generated from gate fees etc. do not account for much of the bottom-line budget for these corps. The Blue Devils make a ton of cash running a Bingo game 7 days a week (because California allows them to). In Ohio the Bluecoats can only run theirs 2 days per week. Tour dues account for a good bit, as does alumni giving, other fundraisers, sponsorship, and more. The Blue Devils grew their organization not by winning shows (although that helps with reputation, no doubt) but by establishing great fundraisers, partnerships, sponsorship, dues, local youth activities, etc. jwillis: Not that this is a BD thread BUT I do remember them far superior in fundraising, salaries etc etc as far back as the mid to late 70s. BD just knows business as well as membership, staff retention, expansion of their brand and how drum corps could lead to other opportunities instead of staying in a bubble. etc etc. Seems they have continually won in more than just a DCI championship. Edited October 18, 2015 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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