2015 DCI DVD/Blu-Ray to be Top-12 Only

[Jeff Ream]

DCI isn't going to lose a lot of money by not having dvd's to sell. they make far more with the streaming, and as stated on here zillions of times by people with the knowledge, the legacy stuff on the old fan network was a driving factor for a small percentage of subscribers. So in all honesty, by NOT paying through the nose to get all of those clearances and putting out there what some insist they have to have or feel cheated, DCI is making money.

Not the most fan friendly approach in some circles, but in other ways, it makes perfect sense.

Not saying DCI did or didn't drop any balls along the way, but Tresona and it's ilk are the ones who truly created the problem. It's not like DCI has millions it can pay for the needed clearances or attorneys fees to fight. Hell even ESPN admitted licensing costs is why they show so little of the bands during football games. And ESPN can afford to pay what Tresona wants if they choose to

[cowtown]

Edited December 14, 2015 by cowtown

[cowtown]

Interesting and you may be correct

I've never bought into the drum corps mantra often used to push new rules that fewer restrictions equals more creativity. I've yet to ever see it play out and in fact, I’d say the opposite

Perhaps for the semi-finalist corps, a sort of directive that to make the Semi-finalist DVD it needs to be all original or public domain and all corps that comply, are on it

Sort of throw them a bone, an incentive and I do realize this would divide corps into the have and have not

I doubt many of the G7 would comply with any such restrictions and a few, the ones that hawk their own media (often at the expense of DCI) would gladly just self-produce and sell their own stuff so there is a G7 tinge to this but can you blame them?

As fans, we need to join together, buy the individual shows through the corps left of the discs and combine them onto one disc and sell them out of cars in the parking lot at shows….who’s with me?

Looks like most the edits are pre-recorded, that seems pretty stupid to me….back in the 90’s, we learned we had to create all our own samples

So um, yeah, I'm smarter some of DCI tops designers and I’m an idiot; we're basically doomed

[cixelsyd]

the genie is out of the box. anything you suggest to limit designers, even penalties for not being cleared before the first show will create howls of "unfair"

What is "unfair" is the status quo. drumcat nailed it - top corps can afford to take a more cavalier approach to sampling. They know that a video of a top-7 corps is still financially feasible at a much higher licensing cost than the video of a 13-lower corps.

The problem is twofold. Not only do lower corps have less of this "creative freedom", but the cost of the overall DCI video products is escalated through the most-favored-nation issues.

I agree with the 4-point solution drumcat has offered. DCI is a business, and has every right (and responsibility) to adopt policies like these when they make business sense.

(And for those whining in defense of copyright violations in the name of "creative freedom" - listen to yourselves. Is copying a licensed work the most "creative" we can be? Could we at least be creative enough to do it legally?)

[drumcat]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that the issue with Madison/Empire State of Mind several years back was that they they had provisional sync rights which then got yanked away like a magician's tablecloth when a big commercial account that wanted an exclusive deal came along. Will sync rights often be provisional in the contract for a drum corps, otherwise, no deal?

Like Phantom 2008 as well? Ya, I think it would be reasonable to suggest that if the rights were "fully acquired" but later pulled, this is not a predictable situation. The corps wouldn't be penalized as long as they acquired all of the rights necessary to publish on disc and online in advance. These types of exceptions would happen, and if it's no fault of the corps, you just have to chalk it up to a crap deal. Again, IANAL, but the concept is essentially that corps have to clear those hurdles prior to competition. From my understanding, many of the rights acquisitions take longer than a year, and that several instances of copyright problems have been when corps ###/u/me they will get those rights - especially those with midseason changes where recorded dialog is introduced.

I'd thought about it, but for discussion purposes, I didn't want to get too cloudy with the proposal. There are some other tweaks as well if I were submitting these as rules, but for the interests of jabber, ya...

[drumcat]

I don't think so. As I understand it, DCI/Madison was never told "yes" about sync rights for "Empire State of Mind". They were told, "No, but we'll keep asking the rights holders and maybe they'll change their mind in time for your video release".

And in this case, if that's how it went down, it would have been a no-no.

The problem with this is that the artist's camp has all the leverage once the performance is "in the can".

However, I don't know for sure that this is what happened. If it was cleared in advance, fine, revocations happen. If it was play-and-hope, that scenario should be eliminated up front.

[drumcat]

A long time ago, drum corps and a quote came together for me. It perfectly illustrated why I loved the art form.

"Art is in the resistance of the materials."

It's true, and not just for drum corps. But as a pit kid, I loved Foley. I lament samples, but don't mind amplification for those pit instruments. The marching machine in Miss Saigon, or seeing Crown use a thundersheet, or when I had an early season part with an ocean drum. Drum corps is defined by its limitations, and while us dinosaurs talk about the olden days of this and that, we can still see the magic of the experience for the kids. That never changes. What has changed is the art, and the creativity once necessary to achieve a sound.

The nostalgia here is only to illustrate why this is such a difficult issue. Once you knock down the creative barriers that exist, artists find the next wall to push. That's good. The most painful thing you can do is to put up more walls, but in this case, the health of the activity's business model is in question. Think of all the wonderful actors that have worked and toiled with excellence on Broadway for 100 years, and then realize that it's the ones in Hollywood that are immortal.

We don't like barriers intrinsically, but drum corps is an art defined by limitations. That's ok to me, because it offers an identity. That identity can be embraced even with a more limited library. In fact, it is a challenge I know that drum corps would handle well - because they have to! It is within that constraint that the activity flourishes. We may not need to step back in other areas, but just because the literature is restrained does not mean the creativity will decrease. I submit it must increase, and it will, and everyone will be better for it.

[drumcat]

Those two companies tried to make a case that what they sold was not gambling, but a game of skill, so they were not really granted an exemption. Once a state determines that what they provide IS gambling...oops...see the recent New York decision.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_Internet_Gambling_Enforcement_Act_of_2006

I could imagine a small carveout where anything 15 years or older played back instrumentally-only would be exempt.

Edited December 15, 2015 by drumcat

[ibexpercussion]

Disappointing, as I would like to be able to watch that Mandarins show again from this past year.

[perc2100]

I've had this discussion to some degree with a lot of people. I need to say first that the DCI office & DA are in a tough spot here. The reason is that most everyone watched the frog boil.

Besides the money that the discs bring in, they may also be the single greatest source of public relations available to perspective members. It's a big deal! With that said, I think there's probably going to be enough on the discs to be fine for that in 2015. I think you're seeing the "most favored nation" clauses at work for the Semifinalists, being straight up unreasonable for that cost.

From my exposed-but-not-an-expert view, this has been something that was just not addressed due to the G7 stuff. I know, I know, seems unrelated. I'd make the case that the Big Boys needed to be acquiesced to, and in large part this happened through rule changes and open creative "license", pardon the pun. They spoke up for one another and said that creativity was a key to the activity, and restricting them was tantamount to drum corps treason. Everyone swallowed and hoped the licensing stuff wouldn't get any worse. And while the big corps might be able to handle the bill, the "freedom" applied to groups that certainly don't move enough units to make sense. Whoops.

In my less-than-educated opinion, there needs to be a change to "play the game". Unfortunately, the onus of responsibility would need to shift to the individual corps, and that's NEVER good. The thing is that the rights acquisitions often required more than a year to complete. Given the annual cycle of drum corps, this causes all sorts of problems. Add to it the allowance of recordings that are copyrighted to be played back during a performance, and risk is heavy. With a cluster of a situation for media behind them, going forward would be a pretty simple thing for me:

1. - All music must be pre-cleared in all ways prior to a corps first annual judged performance. The lack of ANY piece of music or recording would result in exhibition status for the group - NO EXCEPTIONS.
2. - All licensed music must not increase fees via MFN.
3. - All pre-recorded sampling must have a performance free license and receipt of purchase available, or have been conducted by a current performer.
4. - No exhibition corps may appear on recorded products, and any corps in exhibition at championships cannot advance, though World/Open status shall not be impacted.

The main problem today is that corps have NO INCENTIVE to choose music that might bump cost or provide later risk of revoked licensing to the collective. It's not great, and it's not a good pill to swallow at this late date, but that's the world we live in. Nothing would make me happier than to see a law passed that exempted marching organizations the same way Fan Duel and Draft Kings get gambling exemptions. I'm not here to argue the ethics of whether it's good to restrict creativity - maybe it's a boon to do it this way. It just doesn't seem like it on its face. So assuming that everyone would benefit by making all their content available again in various modern outlets, those 4 rule changes are the only way forward in my opinion.

Happy holidays, all.

Definitely food for thought & makes for an interesting discussion. Unfortunately, I don't think the corps care about the DVDs/CDs and care only about designing whatever they think is the show that will score the most points. Unless that mindset changes, we'll continue to see the situation devolve, I'm afraid