cixelsyd Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 My thoughts on the proposals.. 1 - Clarifying Use of Electronic Equipment and Amplification - Sure, if it needs clarification. But keep any changes as simple as possible. 2 - Allow Use of Metronome and Speaker in Warm-up - No. Not only no, hell no. I can't say this emphatically enough. And not only hell no, but enforce the existing rules against metronomes, gock blocks, and loud clapping (particularly in the color guard warm-up zones). I think of #1 as "amplify as many brass as you want". Agree on proposal #2. Extra credit for mentioning the gock blocks. Some shows have guards warming up on the stadium premises, pounding a gock block throughout the performances of other corps. I think this policy needs to be extended (to all pit and battery percussion instruments, and possibly brass). Wherever I go, there is at least one corps warming up loudly at all times until there are only one or two left to perform. With all the communication devices we have now, it should not be too difficult to communicate to the corps to tone it down when the show starts. We could also give them the green light during intermission, so that everyone still has a window of time for loud warmup near their own performance slot, but without disrupting the show in the stadium. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 In other fields, I've encountered this expression: a difference that makes no difference is no difference at all. Or it might be asked: are you really achieving anything worth caring about if it's only noticeable by someone a few feet away from you? It is not that simple. For one thing, many aspects of the performance are ordinarily noticeable from a distance, but not if you put 20,000 people between yourself and the corps. Of course, some things are not as easily perceived from far away, as clarity of sound dissipates over distance. Judging from the sideline is no picnic, especially nowadays with those pit speakers in your face. Frankly, I am surprised anyone is questioning whether field access is necessary for best assessment of a percussion battery. Think about it. Under current rules, drum judges can go wherever they choose... and they choose to spend much of their time on the field, tracking the battery in the drill. Why would they do that if they could evaluate just as well from the sideline, or the stands? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 The NFL has changed its rules in the last year in the name of safety for the players. Why can't DCI? The NFL is a vicious contact sport while DCI isn't. Of the thousands of judged contests/shows since the first , how many times has the very small number of mm/judges coming in contact resulted in someone being carried off the field? There probably has been more mm bumping into each other than into a judge. There's a current topic about hearing protection being discussed. Haven't read every post, but has hearing loss for judges been mentioned? I imagine several of the field judges with over 20 years of outdoor/indoor DCI, band, and WGI experience have started having hearing loss issues. Being over 100 feet away from the section they're judging doesn't seem to me like they can hear how good they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 My favorite percussion judge 'run for your life' video is from Cadets 2008 'Vesuvius and Apollo Unleashed. Lol. You gotta love the Cadets. No one moves like that. Freaking percussion line. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HVLN_3CFNEo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 The electronics one could be good, it’s dial it down a bit, felt we have gotten way too sample, easy button…also it addresses clearing copyrights for samples, about time I was wondering about this. By breaking down samples to non-rhythmic parts, does that then constitute Fair Use? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xandandl Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) 7 - Relocate all Field Judges to Front Sideline - Absolutely YES. This is the best DCI rule change proposal in the 21st century for the safety of the performers. One hundred percent YES get the judges off the field. I have been a DCI fan since 1980 and I am not stuck in the past. Please make this change NOW. I disagree with you on this. Considerations for good field judging are more complex than what you present. Since so many visual designs are masked to the front viewing, the wisdom of the judges not being confined to the front has been that the judge can credit the drill for true excellence or its absence to how the visual is fully being performed, not merely what is viewed from the front or what the design team wants you to see. Many old timers who judged visual would hold the most authentic view of what is actually happening is from the back corners. Perhaps a compromise in today's safety conscious world with such complex visual programs would be to allow the field judges to roam the boundaries on all four sides but not enter the field. If they are confined to the front viewing and given the number of corps that use "judge blockers" to hide guard and equipment changes plus the barricade of the Front Ensemble, the better view might be from the proximate box upstairs, a point MingusMonk has already raised in this thread. If my memory serves me, this has already been voted down twice in previous rule congress votes and did not get out of the captions in another. However, it is the practice in at least one large high school marching band circuit with drum corps affiliations; there it has mixed results. The judging administrator likes it, but the directors and instructors have mixed reviews for adequate perception. DCI level competition and evaluation presumes more than minimal standards according to our history. Edited January 8, 2016 by xandandl 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actucker Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 First, they are NOT my words about a "related context." I did not say them. Just because you are repeating your assertion does not make it so. You may have noticed I have no difficulty in using words to express my sentiments. If I intended to generalize a statement about judges on the field to cover all safety for all marchers in any context, I would have done so. If you want to talk about safety of all marchers in the activity, start your own thread. I made a FOCUSED statement about a proposed rule change and I stated my reason why I support that position. There are other points of view about safety, there are other points of view about spectators having a better live performance experience. All valid points, all worthy of attention. I choose not to focus on them. You may, others may, and that's OK. I'm not. Look, you're getting upset about something really silly. You did, in fact, use the word "criminal" to describe what you felt to be the inaction of DCI in preventing what you perceive to be inevitable injury. I repurposed that word to poke a hole in your logic, suggesting that by your logic the entire activity could be described as "criminal" since you're more likely to be injured in rehearsal, than by a judge at a show. I get it. You don't like that I did that. Doesn't change the fact that "criminal" is your word. You can get upset, and bluster all you want. Doesn't change the facts. Its just band. Lighten up Francis. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peel Paint Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 atucker and wvu80, perhaps you guys could agree to disagree and move on, or take it to PM before you get the thread locked on page 7. We got what you're saying. IMO, wvu80, maybe "negligent" would be a better word for you to use in describing an organization that wouldn't change a rule that could keep performers safer, since no DA is going to file charges against DCI (although they could get sued after a bad injury). And IMO, atucker, you're straw-manning wvu80 when you suggest he's claiming the entire activity is criminal since performers get hurt. You know he didn't say that and wouldn't say it, so arguing his point on those grounds is a debating foul. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man Offsetting penalties... let's move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) Just because you haven't seen contact between judges and performers doesn't mean it isn't happening. We kept a tally in 2010 over the course of the summer of the times a judge made contact with a member of our corps, or directly interfered with a member's performance. There are at least six instances of direct contact, and nearly a dozen examples of a member having to alter his performance in some way (change path, bail out of a toss, etc). Get the dang judges off the dang field. Edited January 8, 2016 by Kamarag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) My favorite percussion judge 'run for your life' video is from Cadets 2008 'Vesuvius and Apollo Unleashed. Lol. You gotta love the Cadets. No one moves like that. Freaking percussion line. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HVLN_3CFNEo The Cadets for the most part, move more often and faster than most corps. That clip is the ending when the whole corps is flying. Don't think the P line is marching like that through the majority of their show. Edited January 8, 2016 by Ghost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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