Guard Class Selection - Opinions Wanted

[GUARDLING]

In the 'local' circuit, they ARE in the higher division that the could have competed in at the WGI regional and choose not to! (in order to medal)

You havent defined WHAT or if the local circuit adapts WGI rules as well as sheets. This guard ,whoever you speak of, are they running away with it in WGI? Are they many many points above everyone in WGI?

If not the argument is moot. Sometimes in some locations the WGI thing means nothing locally. Another question, is there more WGI guards in that local circuit?

Edited March 24, 2016 by GUARDLING

[Rocketman]

It seems you are attempting to justify what this guard did at the WGI regional. Let's try it this way. At their most recent local circuit contest on 3/19 (in the higher division they could/should have competed in at the regional), they won by 5 points! Thus my conclusion that they choose to compete in the lower division at the regional for one reason only, in order to win. WGI rules have no bearing on their actions. It was simply done so that they could win the show. No justification should be offered for this.

[GUARDLING]

It seems you are attempting to justify what this guard did at the WGI regional. Let's try it this way. At their most recent local circuit contest on 3/19 (in the higher division they could/should have competed in at the regional), they won by 5 points! Thus my conclusion that they choose to compete in the lower division at the regional for one reason only, in order to win. WGI rules have no bearing on their actions. It was simply done so that they could win the show. No justification should be offered for this.

No, you are not giving reason as to why they were in any certain class. I asked you some questions and how they are doing now in WGI and you have not answered. Do some guards try to do this YES and always have. Is it usually addressed YES. By not answering what I have asked you are making it seem like nothing more than sour grapes.

First, 5 points is not huge. The local circuit you speak of, I have also asked you questions about and their role as far as wGI, no answer. These questions i have asked you would or could certainly prove your point , or not.

You could be 100% right , although I would bet you are not just based on lack of answers to back up your statement other than " They should not be in a certain class.

I even asked how they are doing now in WGI, nothing.

I've talked about how some local circuits have nothing to do with WGI and adaptation . I have asked how whatever circuit it is how do they compare..again nothing.

Guards who are promoted in WGI have criteria all you offer is " they shouldnt be " not good enough anymore in our activity .

NOW, could it be maybe they are in the wrong class locally? Who knows but a 5 point win doesnt cut it. Are they beating the class higher by alot? In the class locally you said they won ( the higher class ) Well who did they compete against, compared to, are the rest national quality? All things that could prove you point for sure.

Let me help you here. Give me some factual answers. I'm not saying you are wrong BUT you give no proof you are right here.

Edited April 4, 2016 by GUARDLING

[Rocketman]

They have only gone to the one WGI regional. Thus there are no additional WGI shows for which to compare, just the local circuit shows.

Yes, I am soured on a staff that would do such a thing for one reason only. Especially if that reason is to win a WGI regional. Why not have the confidence in your guard to put them in the class they rightfully should have competed in?

[GUARDLING]

They have only gone to the one WGI regional. Thus there are no additional WGI shows for which to compare, just the local circuit shows.

Yes, I am soured on a staff that would do such a thing for one reason only. Especially if that reason is to win a WGI regional. Why not have the confidence in your guard to put them in the class they rightfully should have competed in?

You said they won the regional by 4 points. That's not a sweeping win , especially in the beginning of the year. You didnt answer questions as to what their local competition is, if the circuit adapts ALL wgi rules as well as philosophy. These questions I posed to you are very important to see if in fact what you claim has any validity.

I by no means are defending whoever this is BUT I also know it could have nothing to do with confidence from a staff BUT maybe knowing nationally where they should really be verses locally. There are a few circuits in the past who had a few HS guards competing in World Class and in A class in WGI and not at the top of A class.

SO where they come from, what is the philosophy is, it's relation to WGI and national competition, who they compete against locally all are contributing factors.

Your original statement also says it was brought to your attention about this guard, Does this mean you can't make this judgement because it's really hear say from a individual? Maybe people they compete against locally? Either way , is it possible what judgement you have made? YES , it is BUT judgement has to be based in facts not emotions on anyones part. At least that's how IMO it should be. You also asked for opinions on the subject and although it seems I was giving an opinion, I wasn't. I have no idea who you speak of BUT was giving you possibilities how this staff,maybe even judges who speak to them helped make the decision to be the in class they actually belong nationally.

Going to one regional only says to me ( at least possibly ) they were getting their feet wet and had no idea where to compete and was waiting for WGI to tell them they need to be in a different class. Seems like that didn't happen and a 4 point win is not alot in WGI early on and often ( especially in lower classes flips )

This staff could very well be doing just as you say OR a very smart staff and putting ego aside to put their kids where they belong.

Again I have no idea who you speak of . Maybe you know them personally.

PS: For the record, I do not condone guards going in classes they clearly do not belong BUT the key word here is " Clearly" 4 points is far from clearly.

I have also seen quite to opposite of what you are saying. Staff with huge ego's

( usually newer staff " )Thinking what they created is World Class and often not even national A class quality. This is where the poor members who bought into the staff ego gets crushed. Sad to see.

Thanks for the dialog. I often mentor new staff as well as some non WC groups. Got me back into the thinking through the process and things some tend to forget.

Edited April 4, 2016 by GUARDLING

[totaleefree]

This is from Wikipedia on the class structure of WGI

WGI classifies color guards into two divisions: Scholastic and Independent. Scholastic guards are made up of members from the same high school. University guards are classified in Independent Class. Independent guards often do not associate themselves with any one school, university units being the exception.

WGI goes on to divide these two divisions even further into classes. There are three classes in each division: A Class, Open Class, and World Class. A Class is for beginner to intermediate level ensembles. Open Class is for those better than A Class, World Class is the highest, reserved for experienced and superior color guards. Independent World Class is the only class with no age restrictions. Performers in the Open class age out at the age of 25 and performers in A class "age-out" at 22 years old, and can no longer compete in those classes after their twenty-third birthday twenty-six birthday, but may continue performing with the Independent World Class. Any guard from outside the United States do not have to abide by the age restrictions for A and Open Classes.

[GUARDLING]

This is from Wikipedia on the class structure of WGI

WGI classifies color guards into two divisions: Scholastic and Independent. Scholastic guards are made up of members from the same high school. University guards are classified in Independent Class. Independent guards often do not associate themselves with any one school, university units being the exception.

WGI goes on to divide these two divisions even further into classes. There are three classes in each division: A Class, Open Class, and World Class. A Class is for beginner to intermediate level ensembles. Open Class is for those better than A Class, World Class is the highest, reserved for experienced and superior color guards. Independent World Class is the only class with no age restrictions. Performers in the Open class age out at the age of 25 and performers in A class "age-out" at 22 years old, and can no longer compete in those classes after their twenty-third birthday twenty-six birthday, but may continue performing with the Independent World Class. Any guard from outside the United States do not have to abide by the age restrictions for A and Open Classes.

i think the point the poster was trying to make was that a certain guard did not belong in a class due to talent not age restrictions. Now when you say beginner . This is not the fall over yourself beginner some local circuits see. Look at the talent in finals in a class and has always been there. Local,can be totally different than what you see from A guards in a national competitive contest.

All the questions I posed to the poster would answer IF a guard was taking advantage or actually does belong in a certain class.

There is also a criteria for a guard being in a certain class or moving up in a class . This has nothing to do with emotion or ( which happens sometimes ) a parent thinking their kids guard was screwed .

The poster makes a point and has happened ( or tried ) over the years but one has to ask the questions and answer them before judgement is made.