Jeff Ream Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 They seemed off to me besides that. Didn't help at all probably, but from what I can remember it just seemed really fuzzy on finals night. they had a hard time recovering from the fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Mathematically about the same, since the visual captions get the same weight as the percussion caption in terms of their portion of the overall score. The difference lies in the fact that the music sheets are so specialized. A great color guard will have a lot of effect on the visual analysis and visual ensemble sheets, whereas percussion has very little effect on the music analysis sheet and zero effect on the brass sheet (reference Crown's ability to win Music analysis consistently the last few years, with a 5th place or lower percussion program). A GE judge is also considerably less likely to notice great vs bad percussion (relatively of course, we're splitting hairs at that level) and allow it to affect his number. Essentially, guard and visual are more integrated into other sheets, and as such, have more pull on the overall result. That's why you're less likely to see a corps with a 5th or 6th place guard winning a championship. Its certainly possible, but much less likely. yes and no. drum guys are more willing to put up a spread, which can affect things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 yes and no. drum guys are more willing to put up a spread, which can affect thingsCorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tad_MMA Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) Or guard and props corps. Great brass apparently doesn't mean much either with this judging system. Nah. Not much. 2013 Music GE: BD: 19.30; Crown: 19.85 Brass: BD: 19.6; Crown 20.0 Margin of victory: 0.25 Edited March 30, 2016 by Tad_MMA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actucker Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 yes and no. drum guys are more willing to put up a spread, which can affect things I haven't seen any numbers over the years to support that. Rankings all over the place, sure, but large spreads to prove a point? Not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Nah. Not much. 2013 Music GE: BD: 19.30; Crown: 19.85 Brass: BD: 19.6; Crown 20.0 Margin of victory: 0.25 Crown didn't get a 20 in brass. Cadets won brass and placed 4th. Kind of my point.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Crown didn't get a 20 in brass. Cadets won brass and placed 4th. Kind of my point.. Not in 2013 they didn't, which was his example (and clearly marked). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 And back to my original question: is Thom Hannum becoming, as they say in England, "past it?" I mean, here was a guy who was admittedly rewriting drum parts IN MIAMI before the 1983 championships, because they just couldn't play the stuff ("Zingali was pi$$ed," he said). 4 lines later, they beat SCV by 0.8 in 3 drum captions to win the shebang by 0.1. And in my 1987 recap book, I believe they were undefeated in percussion that year. About 91% sure on this. He went to Star where they won high drums their last year out. The guy obviously knew how to write and surrounded himself with good players and great techs. IDK, there are so many factors involved in this particular discussion: * the quality of the music music design - this is integral, as to be Top 3 you really need a book that is capable of winning High Percussion & I'm not sure Crown has had a Championship caliber book. But that also comes into play when considering... * the quality of the members auditioning - the corps HAS to take what is available to them. Crown doesn't necessarily have the mystique of a long-history corps such as SCV, Cadets, Cavaliers, Phantom Regiment, Madison Scouts. They also don't have the modern consistent success (in percussion caption) as Bluecoats or Blue Devils. I think nowadays the members audition mostly at where they think their personal caption would be the most successful (percussion, brass, guard). A corps contending for the ring but sub-Top 3 in percussion might not attract a top drummer where as a corps with consistent Top-3 percussion but struggling to medal overall might be a more interesting opportunity. * the instructional staff Crown employees - Hannum is a designer, Aungst is a designer, but it's the day-to-day staff that get the technique foundation solid and the book sparkling. You can design the most impeccably nuanced book in the history of the activity (like, say, Star 1993 or Garfield 1987) or the coolest battery book (Cadets 93 or 91 or 94 etc) but if the snare tech can't get the members there the line won't be rewarded. While Hannum is the Percussion Director I'm not sure how much say he has on the day-to-day progress. * the programs in front of them are PHENOMENAL - I already talked about this in another post. Hannum can make Crown's program great but there are four programs above and three or four below that as also amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) Not in 2013 they didn't, which was his example (and clearly marked).😳 Not sure how I missed the 2013! Sorry... Edited March 30, 2016 by Tobias 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffe77 Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 (edited) IDK, there are so many factors involved in this particular discussion: * the quality of the music music design - this is integral, as to be Top 3 you really need a book that is capable of winning High Percussion & I'm not sure Crown has had a Championship caliber book. But that also comes into play when considering... * the quality of the members auditioning - the corps HAS to take what is available to them. Crown doesn't necessarily have the mystique of a long-history corps such as SCV, Cadets, Cavaliers, Phantom Regiment, Madison Scouts. They also don't have the modern consistent success (in percussion caption) as Bluecoats or Blue Devils. I think nowadays the members audition mostly at where they think their personal caption would be the most successful (percussion, brass, guard). A corps contending for the ring but sub-Top 3 in percussion might not attract a top drummer where as a corps with consistent Top-3 percussion but struggling to medal overall might be a more interesting opportunity. * the instructional staff Crown employees - Hannum is a designer, Aungst is a designer, but it's the day-to-day staff that get the technique foundation solid and the book sparkling. You can design the most impeccably nuanced book in the history of the activity (like, say, Star 1993 or Garfield 1987) or the coolest battery book (Cadets 93 or 91 or 94 etc) but if the snare tech can't get the members there the line won't be rewarded. While Hannum is the Percussion Director I'm not sure how much say he has on the day-to-day progress. Good points! IMHO, Bluecoats rise in their percussion program is not only due to the outstanding arranging by Tom Rarick, but Roger Carter. He is hands on with running the day to day ops, a lot of Bluecoats alum with Carter's philosophy in place. He has been on staff for 4 years now. Consistency with technique, culture, etc. Now with SCV, Rennick arranges the battery, but he's hands on with the battery, direct say in philosophy, technique and culture. With most of his techs from with UNT, SCV, or Phantom where Rennick taught. Bottomline is that consistency with staff goes a long way. I didn't forget BD, they speak for themselves with core staff of 20yrs plus. Lets see where Crown is in 2 years. Edited April 1, 2016 by Jeffe77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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