GUARDLING Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) DCI is an educational, musical organization. There are plenty of organizations out there already that are primarily politically oriented organizations where protests, rallies, etc are " their thing ". There is nothing at all to prevent DCI office holders, staffers, marchers from joining such groups ( from the Right and Left of the political spectrum ) and participating in these political organizations goals and aims, agendas, out reach programs, etc. For certain, many DCI'ers individually do so already, and nobody should have any issues with this personal choice on how to spend one's free personal time either. But DCI is not a political organization. If it does decide to become so, its a slippery slope, and fraught with potential legal challenges to its own potential vulnerabilities to legal challenge of how it conducts its affairs regarding vestiges of " discrimination ".. So.... DCI should remain true ti its core mission and avoid at all costs getting sidetracked by political, social, religious, issues. I agree except any organization, political or not does take positions on things that affect their members. Schools have had to take positions or make accommodations, social groups, etc etc. we are not immune.. DCI does not have to get all political BUT can't pretend a social subject does not effect them. It does and this one could be in a very big way. Just imagine if the LGBT community in our activity took a stand..hmmmmmmm I agree that it is a slippery slope for sure and there are ways to do just as you say BUT take a stand on inclusiveness and denounce any form of discrimination. I also agree staying true to mission BUT DCI can not ignore that social issue do not effect our activity. It has and always has imo Not debating anyone opinions on this or any subject , just saying that DCI, WGI even BOA can not ignore. As to how one addresses it will ultimately be decided by it's membership and those served within the activity. Edited April 12, 2016 by GUARDLING 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrothgar15 Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Another potential issue ,if a transgender male , who still has female genitalia, wants to join the Scouts or Cavies,how do you think they will handle it ? By welcoming them to the corps? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) By welcoming them to the corps? I think young people today have less issues on this and all LGBT or separative issues.. funny how kids today look at some of these things and don't get what the big deal is. 20 years from now none of this will be an issue Im sure. Look how much has changed in the past 20 years. Edited April 12, 2016 by GUARDLING 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted April 12, 2016 Author Share Posted April 12, 2016 I wonder about the opposite. What if certain communities disrupt drum corps when they find out there are people who do not share their view points? I feel for those who are performing in places that have such draconian laws in place. I really hate to think of some of the things that could happen. I am really glad to be a part of an activity that is so accepting of all points of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 DCI is an educational, musical organization. There are plenty of organizations out there already that are primarily politically oriented organizations where protests, rallies, etc. are "their thing". There is nothing at all to prevent DCI office holders, staffers, marchers from joining such groups (from the right and left of the political spectrum) and participating in these political organizations goals and aims, agendas, out reach programs, etc. For certain, many DCI'ers individually do so already, and nobody should have any issues with this personal choice on how to spend one's free personal time either. But DCI is not a political organization. If it does decide to become so, its a slippery slope, and fraught with potential legal challenges to its own potential vulnerabilities to legal challenge of how it conducts its affairs regarding vestiges of "discrimination". So . . . DCI should remain true ti its core mission and avoid at all costs getting sidetracked by political, social, religious, issues. That's a good post. But the question remains: when does the act of remaining silent, of doing nothing, itself become a political statement? "All that is required for evil to triumph" and so on. Were there any integrated corps that toured the South in the 1950s? If so, did their black members have to use separate facilities than their white members? If there had been a DCI at the time, should they have ignored that situation? Spoken up about it? Cancelled shows? By doing nothing, would DCI the educational organization be educating its members that "separate but equal" policy was fine? This is not the same situation, to be sure, but there are some parallels. My own opinion is that this new spate of laws will all be gone in ten years or less, and people will be embarrassed to remember them ever having been passed. (I really like your phrase, "vestiges of discrimination".) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Similar to my opinion when the "religious freedom" nonsense was threatened in Indiana, I believe that DCI should let its voice be heard in the form of a letter to the governor (or whatever appropriate position would be). Threaten to cancel shows? No. But state an opinion. As should Music for All, US Bands, WGI, etc. It's true that DCI doesn't include "making political statements" in its two-sentence mission statement, but DCI isn't stating an opinion on invading Poland. This is a matter of concern for many involved in such an inclusive activity. I suspect that Santa Clara Vanguard similarly doesn't include political issues in its mission statement. But if state legislation threatened its bingo operation, I'm guessing they'd pen a strongly worded letter (and more). It's probably worth noting that we had a long discussion of Indiana's law about a year ago: Indiana's New Law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) What if certain communities disrupt drum corps when they find out there are people who do not share their view points? How is this any different than a Corps visiting a community and disrupting the communities sensibilities with shows that might not " share the values of the majority in such a community" ? Or in the olden days, when fights broke out among Corps in competition at the stadium, and disrupted the safety and the calm of the community ? By contrast, I have yet to hear of any community that has " disrupted " a Drum Corps because " there are people in the community who do not share their ( Corps ) "viewpoints ". So I think there is little to be concerned with here.... unless DCI decides to embroil themselves head long into contentious societal and/ or religious issues. In that case, then of course, all bets are off. Edited April 12, 2016 by BRASSO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted April 12, 2016 Author Share Posted April 12, 2016 People like Springsteen and Adams can afford to cancel shows. My heart goes out to those who have to perform in hostile environments but the people who attend DC shows are far from close minded so it is a bit of an oasis in the middle of it I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 That's a good post. But the question remains: when does the act of remaining silent, of doing nothing, itself become a political statement? "All that is required for evil to triumph" and so on. Were there any integrated corps that toured the South in the 1950s? If so, did their black members have to use separate facilities than their white members? If there had been a DCI at the time, should they have ignored that situation? Spoken up about it? Cancelled shows? By doing nothing, would DCI the educational organization be educating its members that "separate but equal" policy was fine? This is not the same situation, to be sure, but there are some parallels. My own opinion is that this new spate of laws will all be gone in ten years or less, and people will be embarrassed to remember them ever having been passed. (I really like your phrase, "vestiges of discrimination".) totally agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) That's a good post. But the question remains: when does the act of remaining silent, of doing nothing, itself become a political statement? " Were there any integrated corps that toured the South in the 1950s? If so, did their black members have to use separate facilities than their white members? If there had been a DCI at the time, should they have ignored that situation? Spoken up about it? Cancelled shows? By doing nothing, would DCI the educational organization be educating its members that "separate but equal" policy was fine? Setting aside the 50's for a moment... what about today ? is it really appropriate for DCI to condone the gender discrimination of two of its member Corps today ? Really ?. Back in the 50's, people rationalized race discrimination in their own minds on the grounds of " tradition ". That " its always been this way ", and " we like it this way ", and only a few " trouble makers " are complaining, and yada yada yada. Fast forward however to today in DCI when we hear much the same excuse words for 2 DCI Corps continued " tradition " of exclusivity to one gender alone, and to discrimination of female participation. Talent for entry does not matter to these 2 Corps. Maleness and " tradition " trumps qualifications and talent here, Women are disqualified for participation in these 2 Corps by their gender alone. Here in the so called 21st century of progressive, forward thinking too . How rich. Something the women among us had no choice in at birth either. The message is out... if you are female, don't even waste your time attempting to make a spot in the marching ranks of these 2 DCI Corps. Instead of " blacks need not apply or " Irish need not apply", its " females need not apply " here with these 2 Corps. I know this is a touchy subject, and believe me, it pains me to bring this up,as I actually LIKE the Cavaliers and the Madison Scouts, and prefer that they keep their " traditions " of All Maleness, despite being the only remaining DCI corps to retain this "tradition " of the classic example of gender discrimination. Proponents in Drum Corps calling for of an end to racial and sexual discrimination lose their high moral ground it seems to me when they adopt such a belief system, but then look the other way when 2 of its iconic DCI Drum Corps continue to practice gender discrimination to this very day. I know some people here probably don't want to hear this... but then again, if we are discussing a topic of alleged sexual discrimination in some far away state, it seems to me the perfect time to broaden the topic to include gender discrimination in DCI and whether we all should continue to condone it, or " be silent on it " because " we like it this way "... its " part of our traditions " with these 2 Corps.... " people like it this way in our neck of the ( Drum Corps ) woods ", and only " trouble makers " would want these 2 Corps to abandon their discriminatory policies regarding one's gender. Plus, like was said in the 50's with the blacks as an excuse.. " they really wouldn't feel comfortable here anyway ". Gender discrimination, like racial discrimination, is particularly odorous, imo, as the person that is the subject of discrimination in these particular cases of it, had no choice in the matter. They were born black. Or they were born female. As for the latter example of gender discrimination, let me be on record then that I have" not remained silent on it", and really can't speak nor be held responsible now or into the future for any others current " silence " on it. Edited April 12, 2016 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts