LGBT laws and drum corps?

[Kamarag]

Fair enough. To be more precise on this, I actually went back just now to look at the latest data on this. One of the largest and most respected researchers in this field is from the research being currently done at UCLA. Their research shows that its actually 0.3 % of the US population that is estimated to be transgender. The source that the US transgender population is currently estimated to be less than a half of 1% of the US population is from the UCLA School of Law, Williams Institute, from LGBT researcher ( and LGBT issues supporter ) Prof. Gary Gates :

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-we-dont-know-the-size-of-the-transgender-population/

Good research there. It doesn't contradict my original point (especially since that number established that the number of trans folks is several orders of magnitude higher than the number of Republican senators/congressmen), It really bothers me that some folksm, even one or two in this thread, would marginalize the .03% though...as if they didn't matter at all because they aren't part of that 99+% part of the majority (not you, Brasso).

[GUARDLING]

I don't understand why this kind of thing needs to be in the law in any way, shape or form.

In a private setting, either the owner of the bathroom chooses to allow it or not. The Gov't has nothing to do with it.

As far as public buildings, just build a separate bathroom, for crying out loud. If they can't afford it at a particular time, oh well. We have has gone this far having 2 separate bathrooms and society is still intact.

There is no reason to seriously offend the sensibilities of 99% of the population to appease the .03% by forcing people to live with something that may make them feel majorly uncomfortable.

I certainly don't think that women should have to shower with an "anatomical male who is mentally female" if they don't feel comfortable with it - and there is absolutely nothing wrong with feeling uncomfortable with it, btw.

Again I would say as it pertains to drum corps. I think members today have less hangups than adults do. I know this for sure. I do find the modesty thing just a little bit interesting ( especially coming from drum corps people)

How many of us ( male and female ) have put their junk out for all to see changing in a parking lot or a crowded male/female bus.

How many females with long lines for a bathroom busted into the nearly empty men's rooms

How many peed on the side of a road or around a tree

How much clothing is worn during a rehearsal ( not much )

How many sleep next to each other on bus floors, gym floors

Modesty isn't something I would equate to most of the situations I have ever seen in drum corps BUT If there are some modest, a person usually found ways to feel comfortable as well as if addressed to staff or management there was always help there.

a few years ago I walked in on about a doz males manscaping over garbage pails in a locker room. Now that was some scene. I just turned around and walked out. ( no modesty there )..lol

No judgement here either way. just interesting when you think about it.

Edited April 15, 2016 by GUARDLING

[HornTeacher]

That number sounds more believable. Uncommon but not rare. My nephew is a T. He's a good kid.

It's a sad statement on our current society when one feels one must attach the concluding 4 word statement as a confirmation to others that the subject is indeed a "worthy" (in the closed minds of some) person. My issue is not with you, Kevin, but rather with the segment of current society which demands it..

Edited April 15, 2016 by HornTeacher

[MikeD]

A few pages back, this would have been on topic, but now I'm not so sure. But, anyhow....

Re: All male Corps: Does Madison and the Cavies have an Explorer Scout connection that many Corps do? It's been decades since I was involved in Scouting, but would that help explain why they can continue to stay male? Probably things have changed since BITD. Just wondering.

I think that here in the US, the Explorer Scouts are now the Venture Scouts, and both males and females are permitted.

[MikeD]

A person that is born with a "P" instead of a " V ", is considered by both the American Medical Society as well as the American Psychological Society to be " a Male ". The only way a person that does not have surgery to remove the " P " can not be considered " a Male " is when such a person self selects for themselves that despite their male appendage, they are not " a Male ",... that they are " a Woman " or are " Something Else ". Yes, it is true that suicide tends to be higher in the transgender population than the general population at large. Sexual confusion is probably a human condition that is probably horribly difficult to live with for those that have this unique sexual confusion issue that transgenders have to grapple with. The fact that so many refuse to have the " P " removed surgically( and instead receive a " V " as replacement, as well as hormone/ estrogen injections, etc) speaks unfortunately to the ongoing confusion that they are having with their gender identification for themselves, and for those they meet in the world.

This thread is brought to you by the letters 'P' and 'V' and the number "0.03",

[MikeD]

Again I would say as it pertains to drum corps. I think members today have less hangups than adults do. I know this for sure. I do find the modesty thing just a little bit interesting ( especially coming from drum corps people)

How many of us ( male and female ) have put their junk out for all to see changing in a parking lot or a crowded male/female bus.

How many females with long lines for a bathroom busted into the nearly empty men's rooms

How many peed on the side of a road or around a tree

How much clothing is worn during a rehearsal ( not much )

How many sleep next to each other on bus floors, gym floors

Modesty isn't something I would equate to most of the situations I have ever seen in drum corps BUT If there are some modest, a person usually found ways to feel comfortable as well as if addressed to staff or management there was always help there.

Even in my pre-DCI dinosaur era we had few issues with modesty. At shows the boys often changed into uniform outside the busses alongside a building to keep from public view, with the girls changing inside the busses, with nothing covering the windows. We stayed in the same gyms quite often as well.

My third year in college, 1973-74, not only was my dorm co-ed, but the bathrooms were mixed as well.

I new a guy named Miguel who left for the summer after the 1972-73 year and came back to this dorm in September 1973 as Mikki. I don't know if she had undergone surgery, but she came back to school as a female. She ended up being a psychologist who had a private practice in NJ, if I recall. Took a lot of crap from the more Neanderthal guys on campus..they ogled her from behind (she looked great in a short skirt!) and when she turned around they would make all sorts of comments, as they had to distance themselves from their prior appreciative (to them) comments.

[skevinp]

It's a sad statement on our current society when one feels one must attach the concluding 4 word statement as a confirmation to others that the subject is indeed a "worthy" (in the closed minds of some) person. My issue is not with you, Kevin, but rather with the segment of current society which demands it..

I don't think that's the main reason I said it, but i'm glad if it helps loosen away anyone's incorrect assumptions.

[Brian Tuma]

This thread is brought to you by the letters 'P' and 'V' and the number "0.03",

I had to chortle over the letter designations of basic human anatomy.

I get the feeling the op was trying to spare readers any embarrassment.

Actually, I think anyone running for public office should be able to name, recognize and explain the function of all parts of the female reproductive system before they go introducing legislation that affects female health.

If the mods feel my statement is inappropriate, I have no problem with it being deleted. I really just want to talk about drum corps on this forum.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Brian Tuma

[N.E. Brigand]

I don't understand why this kind of thing needs to be in the law in any way, shape or form.

In a private setting, either the owner of the bathroom chooses to allow it or not. The Gov't has nothing to do with it.

As far as public buildings, just build a separate bathroom, for crying out loud. If they can't afford it at a particular time, oh well. We have has gone this far having 2 separate bathrooms and society is still intact.

There is no reason to seriously offend the sensibilities of 99% of the population to appease the .03% by forcing people to live with something that may make them feel majorly uncomfortable.

I certainly don't think that women should have to shower with an "anatomical male who is mentally female" if they don't feel comfortable with it - and there is absolutely nothing wrong with feeling uncomfortable with it, btw.

Until 1964, it was a private decision for many businesses as to whether or not to allow black people to use their whites-only drinking fountains. And those businesses would have said there was "absolutely nothing wrong with" a white person "feeling uncomfortable" about having to put their lips to the same spigot that had been used by a black person. How gross! (They would have said.)

That said, I'm generally a proponent of gradualism. This whole debate is going to look silly in not too many years, when everybody just accepts transgender people, but that doesn't mean the psychological barriers don't exist now, and minor setbacks like the North Carolina law are as important for shedding light on the issue as for anything else.

(Meanwhile, mothers have taken their little sons into women's rooms, and fathers have taken their little daughters into men's rooms, for a long time. And if it's a case of not wanting there to be anyone who could be sexually attracted to oneself in the public restroom, then we'd have to build separate restrooms for gays and lesbians.)

[N.E. Brigand]

A person that is born with a "P" instead of a " V ", is considered by both the American Medical Society as well as the American Psychological Society to be "a Male". The only way a person that does not have surgery to remove the "P" can not be considered "a Male" is when such a person self selects for themselves that despite their male appendage, they are not "a Male", that they are "a Female" or are "Something Else".

You could have taken the Da Vinci Code route and said "blade" and "cup" for P and V, I suppose. As it stands, you're half way to the Ideal Gas Law. In this scenario what would the other letters in PV=nRT stand for?

The only point I would take issue with in your post is that the phrase "self selects" sounds like the person is making a choice about their perceived gender. I don't think it works that way. If you're saying that they have to make a choice in order to be so considered under certain standards, ok.

But that may not be entirely correct either. I'm not sure what the "American Medical Society" is, but I see that the American Medical Association in 2014 called for government policies regarding sex on birth certificates to be "modernized" so that it's not longer necessary for a person to have surgery in order to get their official sex designation changed.