Clutchtow Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Speaking of the SCV organization,' havn't heard much about what the Vanguard are up too, these days either. They are always frustratingly quiet. The SCV Backstage 4 minute clips that start in June and air about once a week are about all you get to hear from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchcoffeeman Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) So the answer to help corps place better is to water down the friday and saturday performance and make it totally irrelevant? WHAT? Nothing gets "watered down." How do you figure that? For three consecutive days, including Saturday, every corps competes as hard as it can for the highest placement possible. Where's the water? This idea does not mess with corps membership. It does not mess with corps staff. The idea to let 25 corps perform on a final Saturday has zero effect, by itself, on the quality of the show design, or staff philosophies of pedagogy. It just an extra show. It is simply is one more night of competition, for all the marbles, everyone in the ring. If there is water here, I fail to see it. No, it waters down nothing. Instead, it eliminates an artificial category of "finalists" that serves no functional purpose of selecting a champion. It is an artifact of an analog age. It contributes to competitive inertia. The 12th-place corps is not more advanced on Saturday that it was on Friday for having qualified for finals. The 13th-place corps is no less advanced for having missed finals. The competitive distance between 12th and 13th is not affected by the fact that one of those corps goes on to perform on Saturday, and the other does not. "Finals" is a real thing only in that it is the last contest of the season; the finale. "Finals" as a necessary method to sift out those worthy of consideration for the championship from the unworthy is a fiction, a conceit. Edited May 23, 2016 by 2muchcoffeeman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I also notice that 19-25 change directors a staff members a great deal. That can slow your progression down. A different directors with new ideas & direction that not on board with the current staff. Now you hire a new staff, you drop from 16 to 22, now it takes 2-3 yrs just to get back to 16-18 placement. This becomes a cycle for about 8-9 yrs with some corps bouncing from 17-23 depending on the 2-3 new hot the trot failed directors within this time period or no consistence staff. The top tier corps aren't having stability problems like the lower tier corps are having which keeps some corps fighting it out with some OC corps. The bottom line is, new great idea corps director every so many years and staff = 19-23 placement. If leadership longevity was the determining factor of competitive success, your top DCI corps would be: 1. Pioneer 2. Cadets 3. Blue Knights 4. Jersey Surf 5. Pacific Crest Staff stability often leads to placement stability, which is nice if you are already winning. But for a 19-25 corps, that may mean stable residence in the 19-25 zone. Moving up might require additional staff consultants, or a wholesale change in design or teaching personnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Holland Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 "Its ok, we still get to play on saturday." An sentence you'll hear too often if this happens. It will no longer push corps to push themselves. Nothing gets "watered down." How do you figure that? For three consecutive days, including Saturday, every corps competes as hard as it can for the highest placement possible. Where's the water?This idea does not mess with corps membership. It does not mess with corps staff. The idea to let 25 corps perform on a final Saturday has zero effect, by itself, on the quality of the show design, or staff philosophies of pedagogy. It just an extra show. It is simply is one more night of competition, for all the marbles, everyone in the ring. If there is water here, I fail to see it. No, it waters down nothing. Instead, it eliminates an artificial category of "finalists" that serves no functional purpose of selecting a champion. It is an artifact of an analog age. It contributes to competitive inertia. The 12th-place corps is not more advanced on Saturday that it was on Friday for having qualified for finals. The 13th-place corps is no less advanced for having missed finals. The competitive distance between 12th and 13th is not affected by the fact that one of those corps goes on to perform on Saturday, and the other does not. "Finals" is a real thing only in that it is the last contest of the season; the finale. "Finals" as a necessary method to sift out those worthy of consideration for the championship from the unworthy is a fiction, a conceit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 I think we are going to see some movement in the lower area. all the top 20 are so good now I just like to watch and not pay attention to placements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2muchcoffeeman Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) "Its ok, we still get to play on saturday." An sentence you'll hear too often if this happens. It will no longer push corps to push themselves. Yeah, no. Doesn't hold water. The same thing can be said now, about Semis: "It's okay, we still get to play on Friday." Do we hear that now? You think any corps is failing to push itself because they're assured a spot on Friday? Because all things must end, there must be a finals. It does not necessarily follow that the number of performers at the final show must be limited to 12. What if the founders had originally set finals at 10 instead of 12? Or maybe 8? What would we be saying today -- that 8 is the perfect-sized slate for Saturday? It's all arbitrary. I mean, if you buy the idea that the push to "make finals" brings out the competitive best in every corps, then the logical conclusion is to allow only 2 corps to compete for the title on Saturday. After all, that would really push everyone to their limits even more than they push themselves now. If that's the purpose of finals, then 2 finalists is the max. Don't tell me Colts wouldn't have come out on fire Saturday with another chance to overtake Troopers. Or that the crowd wouldn't have eaten it up. Twelve is an artificial number in an age when vinyl records and PBS broadcasts are not around to enforce multiples of 4. In the end, corps aspire to be the best they can be. That's measured in placement, not in "making finals." In the current setup, "making finals" is merely a synonym for placement. Edited May 24, 2016 by 2muchcoffeeman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shofmon88 Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Twelve is an artificial number in an age when vinyl records and PBS broadcasts are not around to enforce multiples of 4. Really? From Wikipedia: Historically, units of time in many civilizations are duodecimal. There are twelve signs of the zodiac, twelve months in a year, and the Babylonians had twelve hours in a day (although at some point this was changed to 24). Traditional Chinese calendars, clocks, and compasses are based on the twelve Earthly Branches. There are 12 inches in an imperial foot, 12 troy ounces in a troy pound, 12 old British pence in a shilling, 24 (12×2) hours in a day, and many other items counted by the dozen, gross (144, square of 12) or great gross (1728, cube of 12). The Romans used a fraction system based on 12, including the uncia which became both the English words ounce and inch. Not that random if you ask me. However, I get the spirit of what you're saying. I wouldn't include all 25 corps though. Maybe 16. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 What may be more interesting, would be performing by random draw order at quarters and semis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shofmon88 Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 What may be more interesting, would be performing by random draw order at quarters and semis. They did something similar to this in 1988. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 "Its ok, we still get to play on saturday." An sentence you'll hear too often if this happens. It will no longer push corps to push themselves. As long as it is a competition, corps will still push themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.