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eric24

Corps 19-25 Placeing Higher

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With history as our guide, it is far more likely that Corps in the current 16th to 40th placement positions will be found folding, than find their way into the Top 12 some day in the future. Of course, we all here wish this would not be the case, but there is no nobility to be had, imo, in wishing better for these Corps in future placements when we are not willing to embrace, nor even consider, systemic changes that would be required to alter this stagnant competitive inertia that these 16th and below Corps are uniformly confronted with, and will until the end of time... or until they fold.

Edited by BRASSO

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We all had pride of performance. I know in most of the corps (yes, even that one at the top of the food chain) there is no weight placed upon membership to achieve better scores, only better performances from their perspective. They are never told that "we need to hit 80" by a certain point of the summer. Only to constantly be working to produce the best performance that they can possibly do, and to always take everything up one notch from the previous rep or performance.

But if you take away the competition aspect... then it's exhibition... which is lame. It's no longer marching music's major league.

Letting everyone play on friday and saturday makes it an exhibition.

Exactly, and anyone who marched drum corps knows how "meaningful" (or not) exhibition performances were in context to the rest of the summer

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I spent time yesterday contemplating the OP's question. For some reason [maybe because of my love for WI & DCM back in the day] I selected one corps' scoring history the previous 25 years.

I saw this corps play in exhibition at Navy Pier Chicago many summers ago [2005 I think], I think it was late June. I told my wife: "this corps has resurgence written all over it!"

Sure enough, they went Div 1 & 14th in semis in '06, 14th in semis in '07, and 8th in finals in '08.

I remember seeing them for the first time in Whitewater in 1978, and I've always enjoyed what they do.

Blue Stars.

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Exactly, and anyone who marched drum corps knows how "meaningful" (or not) exhibition performances were in context to the rest of the summer

Just to keep playing out this discussion (because it IS relevant to the lower placing corps, in my opinion), if this truly is the case (i.e. the requirement of competition to make it meaningful), then how "meaningful" is the season as a whole for most of the lower placing corps, who find themselves in virtually the exact same finishing position every show and ever season for years at a time? Competition implies a chance at success - an unknown as to the outcome. Tilting at windmills isn't competitive - Quixote will always lose. But does that rob the effort of its meaning?

I only bring it back to this, because again - asking the question "What can 19-25 do to move up" implies that moving up in placement is their goal. I'm not certain that IS a primary goal of every corps.

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so the answer is to let EVERYONE play on saturday? gross.

you've just taken the meaning of "making finals" and tossed that out the window.

I agree; if anything I personally would like if Semifinals went back to Top 17 or 16, and Finals were just Top 10, or maybe Top 8. Make it MORE competitive! IMO Quarters and Semifinals are a joke IMO in their current format. I MUCH liked how it was BITD with anything-goes Quarters, Top 17 was Semis, Top 12 was Finals. This activity is competition, and now Semifinals is seemingly the DCI participation ribbon for the majority of World Class drum corps.

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Just to keep playing out this discussion (because it IS relevant to the lower placing corps, in my opinion), if this truly is the case (i.e. the requirement of competition to make it meaningful), then how "meaningful" is the season as a whole for most of the lower placing corps, who find themselves in virtually the exact same finishing position every show and ever season for years at a time? Competition implies a chance at success - an unknown as to the outcome. Tilting at windmills isn't competitive - Quixote will always lose. But does that rob the effort of its meaning?

I only bring it back to this, because again - asking the question "What can 19-25 do to move up" implies that moving up in placement is their goal. I'm not certain that IS a primary goal of every corps.

You as a staff are ALWAYS concerned about where your corps and captions place. You don't want the membership to have that idea though. Because there's a lot of it that's out of their control.

I would say that very few corps stress placement to the members. It does you no good. However, you do want to design the best possible package to set your membership up for success.

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I think competition is what has made the 13 - 25 corps so much better IMO.

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I agree; if anything I personally would like if Semifinals went back to Top 17 or 16, and Finals were just Top 10, or maybe Top 8. Make it MORE competitive! IMO Quarters and Semifinals are a joke IMO in their current format. I MUCH liked how it was BITD with anything-goes Quarters, Top 17 was Semis, Top 12 was Finals. This activity is competition, and now Semifinals is seemingly the DCI participation ribbon for the majority of World Class drum corps.

I always liked that quarters included the Open class (or div 2/3 for us older kids), because it gave us the chance to see how we stacked up against the rest on a common field. East Coast Jazz, Spartans, Legends, Patriots, BDB, SCVC, and a countless number of other OC corps show that while they didn't have the budgets to tour like the world class, they could still hang with them and even teach them a thing or two. Semis should still be 17 to me. Finals 12. Simply because seeing how the 10 thru 14 corps on any given day can actually influence where they land with their performance of that day.

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I think competition is what has made the 13 - 25 corps so much better IMO.

+1 to you for stating this. I agree. Watering it down will do the same to the shows.

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I only bring it back to this, because again - asking the question "What can 19-25 do to move up" implies that moving up in placement is their goal. I'm not certain that IS a primary goal of every corps.

You could be correct that for a few of these Corps, moving up in placement is of little to no concern to them. With such Corps, if they exist, this OP's question before us does not apply to them. Since these particular Corps ( again, if they even exist ) are not concerned with moving up in placement, then neither are we. Therefore, the OP 's question does not pertain to them at all. We then are left with, we would assume, the vast majority of Corps, having willfully joined an organization where competition between teams is the norm, ARE indeed interested in their future upward placement prospects, and what it would take to move up in placements in future years. I mentioned that vet retention of marcher talent to be the single biggest need for them to have,imo... then mentioned as a follow up that the environment and culture at present in DCI is not favorable at all to these Corps in the least for this to happen ( MM talent retention). Ergo, they are hopelessly pretty much locked into these 16th to 40 positions from now until forever... or until they fold and disappear as regrettably we find most of 'em eventually do.

Edited by BRASSO

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