Corps 19-25 Placeing Higher

[BRASSO]

There have been director's that have also made promises that were never kept. There have been some in the activity famous for that sort of thing too.

There is no question that sometimes Corps Directors have reneged on promises made to people, both inside and outside of their Corps. This dishonesty is not something that is found more extensively at the lower tier Corps than with the elites either. Dishonesty is more of a character flaw, and it can be found at all levels of strata... among both the successful and the unsuccessful, and more than likely in equal proportion too, imo. If a writer is giving 100% effort in their work to Elite Corps, but giving less than 100% in their efforts to lower placing Corps( as as a being alleged here is " the norm " and not " the exception ") then the primary fault is not the lower placing Corps in their expectations from the writer. it is primarily the fault of the writer in the dishonest delivery of their service and efforts provided to that lower placing Corps. Chris Holland described the shoddy service above , just as you told us that you get lots of calls from the Non elite Corps asking you to help save them after they did not receive what was promised them in the effort and delivery of services they contracted for from the writer. Its deplorable for us to learn that its " the norm " for lower placing Corps not to receive the 100% efforts from these writers that the writers provide to the Elites at the top of the heap. Its just one MORE reason to believe that these 16th and below Corps will remain where they are until the end of time, or until their fold. which history tells us, most of them unfortunately will.

Edited May 19, 2016 by BRASSO

[GUARDLING]

There is no question that sometimes Corps Directors have reneged on promises made to people, both inside and outside of their Corps. This dishonesty is not something that is found more extensively at the lower tier Corps than with the elites either. Dishonesty is more of a character flaw, and it can be found at all levels of strata... among both the successful and the unsuccessful, and more than likely in equal proportion too, imo.

Not really I can give several examples ( although I wont )of WC corps , even in finals now who have done this or corps for obvious reasons who aren't around now with this being one of many reasons.

Sometimes,yes there is dishonesty but the flip side of that is that sometimes it's not with bad intentions but very bad management. Both have happened. As far as good intentions. You know the old saying..lol

Yes you are right about those dishonest and where they can be found.

Edited May 19, 2016 by GUARDLING

[MisterA]

As much as we want to see new corps in the top 12, many people have commented there is almost no chance any of the current 19-25 corps could possibly ever make top 12, and they stand a better chance of folding than moving up and making finals. I disagree completely. As I mentioned earlier, I think the reason they don't move up is more of a safety measure for the corps long term existence, rather than the inability to move up. However, there are many things a corps can do if they really do want to move up the ladder. And not all of them will make the corps go broke doing it.

First off, start planning for next year now. Pick music with a high level of difficulty, acquire all the rights necessary, and get arrangements done early. Then get the best drill designer you can and have them start writing drill early. Maybe even think about using one of them as a concert piece for encore performances so kids coming back next year could get some early rehearsal on it. Also have kids practicing these pieces during off times in the current season.

Next, you have to be tougher during auditions. For example corps like Pioneer and others need to make more cuts. If they are planning on marching 130 kids, maybe they should just take the top 90-100 kids instead, and cut the rest. Then they can have the drill writers design a little more difficult show to match the level of the kids, since they have eliminated the lower 25% of the kids that were inexperienced. Also when making cuts, instead of taking the most talented kids even if they are in high school, take more college kids even if they aren't quite as talented. The extra 2-4 weeks at the beginning of the new season when they are able to move in earlier should make up for the slight difference in talent.

Try to arrange the schedule for the season so you have a 5 or 6 day break in the 2nd week of July. That way you can implement any big changes needed, and add/cut parts of the show for more general effect. Also really utilize your extra staff during that week. Many corps have dozens of people on staff that only come in for a few days during the season. Take those 5 or 6 days with no shows in July, and bring in most of your extra people during the course of that week. By putting most of your major changes in that week, it will allow you to clean the heck out of it during the next 3 weeks until finals. However, save a brand new ending for the weekend before finals to add, giving the judges one last chance to help bump up your score.

Try to come up with a really cool drill set that can be used in future shows, like Scouts Fleur De Lis, Crown's Crown, Troopers Sunburst, Phantoms Chevron, Cavaliers Diamond Cutter, etc. Something that can become a trademark of the corps and excite the crowd when it is pulled out.

Get a board of directors for the corps that is actively doing things to improve the corps and finances for the corps. No offense meant, but too many people on too many boards are just there for the supposed prestige of being on a board. Get a board that is going to stay on top of finances and the corps directors and staff. Also have them active in the community of the corps, and always looking for new sponsors and other sources of immediate or permanent income for the corps. I think a major reason many corps have failed is because the board members aren't stepping in and working with the directors, and many almost seem to be afraid of stepping on toes by saying something. Corps may be non-profit, but they have to be run like a business.

Cut a couple of members during the season. If they aren't cutting it, let them go. It will also let other members know they need to work their tails off, or they could be cut in the future as well.

Run rehearsals more aggressively. Anyone who has watched corps rehearse in the past can usually tell the difference during rehearsals of whether it is a top 5 corps, or one of the bottom 5, even if there are not buses with the name of the corps, or kids wearing the corps t-shirts, you can tell. The lower placing corps need to really step it up. If you want to move up, it is hard to do if you are running laid back rehearsals.

One of the biggest things is to make sure all of the members of the corps are on the same page. Let them know expectations have changed from previous years. Challenge the kids every year by increasing the level of difficulty in the music and drill

These are all things that can be done without increasing the budget too much. I know many of the corps will not do these things. And I would be disappointed in some of them if they did. But in order to improve to a level above some of the corps that are currently placing higher, you are really going to have to change a lot of things that your corps has been doing for years. The corps in the 10-17th group have really been improving over the years, so you really have to improve in several areas to make any kind of jump. Most of those corps have one or two weaknesses which held them back, and each one of those corps will try to focus the following season on those weaknesses. And the corps below you are always trying to improve as well. The questionable factor will always be the judges. I remember one year sitting behind parents of either a marching member or staff member. I remember overhearing their conversation about judging. It was a pretty close race between many corps, and the corps director had told them that depending on the panel, the corps could place 11th at the highest and 15th at the lowest. The director had predicted 13th at prelims, and 14th at semis by the judging panels. Which goes to show sometimes judges love your show and what sections are doing with it, and sometimes they don't.

So write your show a little bit above the level of the members in the corps, and work your tail off to get them to perform it the best they can. I can't wait to see what all the corps bring to the field this summer. And whether they place 25th or 12th, I always enjoy all the different styles of music and drill they bring to the field.

[BRASSO]

The Cadets were out on the practice field today perfecting what is expected to be another highly complex and demanding show. While the Cadets do have some holes right now in line, because they do march a few high schoolers in their ranks, the Corps nonetheless has a pretty good marcher turnout... certainly enough to have these practices and thus to stay far ahead of the 16th and below Corps the Cadets will compete against this year. Most of these 16th-40ith Corps marchers today by contrast were learning how to diagram a sentence, or who Lewis & Clark were, or how to do long division, or what the capitol of California is, and so forth. If some of these 16th and below Corps started camp this midweek, they could have the practice conducted today in an empty tennis court somewhere.... as most could not attend. They are required to be in school. Its striking the inherent advantages these elites Corps have, that pretty much makes any talk of these 16th and below Corps a non starter in any conversation that begins that they can effectively compete with this, let alone top any of these such elite Corps.

Edited May 20, 2016 by BRASSO

[C.Holland]

As much as we want to see new corps in the top 12, many people have commented there is almost no chance any of the current 19-25 corps could possibly ever make top 12, and they stand a better chance of folding than moving up and making finals. I disagree completely. As I mentioned earlier, I think the reason they don't move up is more of a safety measure for the corps long term existence, rather than the inability to move up. However, there are many things a corps can do if they really do want to move up the ladder. And not all of them will make the corps go broke doing it.

First off, start planning for next year now. Pick music with a high level of difficulty, acquire all the rights necessary, and get arrangements done early. Then get the best drill designer you can and have them start writing drill early. Maybe even think about using one of them as a concert piece for encore performances so kids coming back next year could get some early rehearsal on it. Also have kids practicing these pieces during off times in the current season.

Next, you have to be tougher during auditions. For example corps like Pioneer and others need to make more cuts. If they are planning on marching 130 kids, maybe they should just take the top 90-100 kids instead, and cut the rest. Then they can have the drill writers design a little more difficult show to match the level of the kids, since they have eliminated the lower 25% of the kids that were inexperienced. Also when making cuts, instead of taking the most talented kids even if they are in high school, take more college kids even if they aren't quite as talented. The extra 2-4 weeks at the beginning of the new season when they are able to move in earlier should make up for the slight difference in talent.

Try to arrange the schedule for the season so you have a 5 or 6 day break in the 2nd week of July. That way you can implement any big changes needed, and add/cut parts of the show for more general effect. Also really utilize your extra staff during that week. Many corps have dozens of people on staff that only come in for a few days during the season. Take those 5 or 6 days with no shows in July, and bring in most of your extra people during the course of that week. By putting most of your major changes in that week, it will allow you to clean the heck out of it during the next 3 weeks until finals. However, save a brand new ending for the weekend before finals to add, giving the judges one last chance to help bump up your score.

Try to come up with a really cool drill set that can be used in future shows, like Scouts Fleur De Lis, Crown's Crown, Troopers Sunburst, Phantoms Chevron, Cavaliers Diamond Cutter, etc. Something that can become a trademark of the corps and excite the crowd when it is pulled out.

Get a board of directors for the corps that is actively doing things to improve the corps and finances for the corps. No offense meant, but too many people on too many boards are just there for the supposed prestige of being on a board. Get a board that is going to stay on top of finances and the corps directors and staff. Also have them active in the community of the corps, and always looking for new sponsors and other sources of immediate or permanent income for the corps. I think a major reason many corps have failed is because the board members aren't stepping in and working with the directors, and many almost seem to be afraid of stepping on toes by saying something. Corps may be non-profit, but they have to be run like a business.

Cut a couple of members during the season. If they aren't cutting it, let them go. It will also let other members know they need to work their tails off, or they could be cut in the future as well.

Run rehearsals more aggressively. Anyone who has watched corps rehearse in the past can usually tell the difference during rehearsals of whether it is a top 5 corps, or one of the bottom 5, even if there are not buses with the name of the corps, or kids wearing the corps t-shirts, you can tell. The lower placing corps need to really step it up. If you want to move up, it is hard to do if you are running laid back rehearsals.

One of the biggest things is to make sure all of the members of the corps are on the same page. Let them know expectations have changed from previous years. Challenge the kids every year by increasing the level of difficulty in the music and drill

These are all things that can be done without increasing the budget too much. I know many of the corps will not do these things. And I would be disappointed in some of them if they did. But in order to improve to a level above some of the corps that are currently placing higher, you are really going to have to change a lot of things that your corps has been doing for years. The corps in the 10-17th group have really been improving over the years, so you really have to improve in several areas to make any kind of jump. Most of those corps have one or two weaknesses which held them back, and each one of those corps will try to focus the following season on those weaknesses. And the corps below you are always trying to improve as well. The questionable factor will always be the judges. I remember one year sitting behind parents of either a marching member or staff member. I remember overhearing their conversation about judging. It was a pretty close race between many corps, and the corps director had told them that depending on the panel, the corps could place 11th at the highest and 15th at the lowest. The director had predicted 13th at prelims, and 14th at semis by the judging panels. Which goes to show sometimes judges love your show and what sections are doing with it, and sometimes they don't.

So write your show a little bit above the level of the members in the corps, and work your tail off to get them to perform it the best they can. I can't wait to see what all the corps bring to the field this summer. And whether they place 25th or 12th, I always enjoy all the different styles of music and drill they bring to the field.

It is possible. Troopers have done it, Blue Stars made that climb slowly. Crown climbed and climbed until they reached the top. Does one corps success hinder on another's misstep? Of course it does. Colts are always on the edge, Boston was on that edge for years and then broke through. Cascades have done it. Unfortunately historical success, helps. however its not impossible. Crossmen, Madison, etc... they've all been in and out. Does it stink to be a regular "in" corps, and find yourself on the outside. Yes. Does it light a fire on your admin and staff to program better when you're just outside? Yes. It does.

[BRASSO]

It is possible. Troopers have done it, Blue Stars made that climb slowly. Crown climbed and climbed until they reached the top. Does one corps success hinder on another's misstep? Of course it does. Colts are always on the edge, Boston was on that edge for years and then broke through. Cascades have done it. Unfortunately historical success, helps. however its not impossible. Crossmen, Madison, etc... they've all been in and out. Does it stink to be a regular "in" corps, and find yourself on the outside. Yes. Does it light a fire on your admin and staff to program better when you're just outside? Yes. It does.

Historically, Corps that have found themselves at placements below 16th, then were able to push themselves back into the Top 5 and to be regular Finalists most years, all had one thing in common..... they all at one time before were National Champions in Drum Corps ( or medalists at the least ). Troopers, Boston, Madison were all National Champions before. Blue Stars were 2nd and 3rd place finishers before at DCI Championships. The Cadets were a 16th or below DCI Corps in the early years of DCI, but they also had National Championships in their resume in the pre DCI years. Having a history of greatness at one time, does give these Corps a leg up on all the others attempting to begin to think that they might reach the top of the heap like this again some day too. The only start up Corps the last 40 years that is still with us that had no prior history of a top 5 finish in Drum Corps at a National Championship, but broke thru despite no prior history of greatness, is Carolina Crown and the Bluecoats. It does show then that its not impossible to break thru if you are a 16 or below Corps with no history of greatness before. But if only two Corps remains today that once took that voyage out of the many that have tried, it does demonstrate that challenges that beset all these perennial 16th and below Corps.

Edited May 20, 2016 by BRASSO

[noahsigs]

Historically, Corps that have found themselves at placements below 16th, then were able to push themselves back into the Top 5 and to be regular Finalists most years, all had one thing in common..... they all at one time before were National Champions in Drum Corps ( or medalists at the least ). Troopers, Boston, Madison were all National Champions before. Blue Stars were 2nd and 3rd place finishers before at DCI Championships. The Cadets were a 16th or below DCI Corps in the early years of DCI, but they also had National Championships in their resume in the pre DCI years. Having a history of greatness at one time, does give these Corps a leg up on all the others attempting to begin to think that they might reach the top of the heap like this again some day too. The only start up Corps the last 40 years that is still with us that had no prior history of a top 5 finish in Drum Corps at a National Championship, but broke thru despite no prior history of greatness, is Carolina Crown. It does show then that its not impossible to break thru if you are a 16 or below Corps with no history of greatness before. But if only one Corps remains today that once took that voyage out of the many that have tried, it does demonstrate that challenges that beset all these perennial 16th and below Corps.

What about Bluecoats?

[BRASSO]

What about Bluecoats?

I did mention them ( in an edit)

[noahsigs]

I did mention them ( in an edit)

Haha I beat you by a minute,, but I forgive you.

[BRASSO]

Haha I beat you by a minute,, but I forgive you.

I hadn't seen your post or I'd have given you credit for mentioning Bluecoats.. but what the heck, I 'll give you credit for it anyway ( haha!)

Speaking of both Carolina Crown and Bluecoats, both these fine Corps have had years where they made Finals, finished out of Finals, but then were able to get back into Top 12 again. (Cadets as well). Once again, having " been there before " does seem to give these Corps a leg up on what it takes to get back to TOP 12 again, and then push to get into the upper echelon of DCI ( Top 5 or 6 ) from there.

Edited May 20, 2016 by BRASSO