Tim K Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Having alumni corps perform early in a show is a great opportunity to let the folks who made the activity it is today get a chance to show their stuff, but it can also serve an important purpose--warming up the crowd. When I attend a show and the crowd is warmed up, the first competing unit always sounds better. When this is not the case, I always think the first unit is struggling, but the judges scores do not reflect this, so it is me. Performance order can impact how we perceive a corps, but I agree it does not always impact judging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcicolts Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 BD, smartly, had 27 show competitions a couple of years back, winning their DCI Title. A few Corps just below them ( medals range ) had 35 show competitions that season. They needed the dough. BD didn't. BD wanted the Title, and coordinated their 8 week summer competition accordingly. Given a choice between sparsely available practice time, or performing in shows, come Finals Nite, the few tenths of a point that wins a title can be found in the cleaning phase developed at practices. Exactly. When a core is able to do that AND has a few more hours during the competitions that they do go to it is incredibly hard for the other cores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRapp Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 For those who believe order of performance doesn't matter, go ahead and propose to the leaders of the six or so elite corps that from here forward their performance time will be randomly selected. :-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortAndFast Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 ... And FWIW, I do not agree that order of performance doesn't effect scoring. It won't make Mandarins a medalist, but over a season it definitely could determine who is a finalist. If you look at scoring over the last decade, and view placement mobility over a season in the framework of "scoring boxes," I would guess it won't surprise anyone if you saw it is rare at best to see a corps finish the season outside of their "scoring box." To what degree this fact has impacted the talent movement and resources at the organization level, someone else would be far better to determine—but the fact that only one corps in the last (what?) 20 years has risen from newbie to elite should tell you how "pre-set" the system is to keep things as they are now. ... I'd just say again that to understand why DCI adjudication is the way it is, the starting point is to read the sheets (http://www.dci.org/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209937964). The "boxes" come from the show content/performance and assess how consistently the corps achieves the criteria on the sheet. For example, if you're judging brass, there are certainly going to be good brass moments in any semifinalist line but you have to assess whether those moments happen "sometimes", "often" or "always". If the answer is "sometimes", then the line is in box 3 and isn't going to beat any line that goes into box 4. Not surprisingly, these box assessments are pretty stable so this results in pretty stable "groups" of corps whose scores clump together all season. It's common to have placement changes within a group, it's not common to move to a different group. This is 100% by design. As fans, we can like it or not (I'm sure most fans would like more volatility), but the DCI corps have collectively decided that they want to be judged in this fashion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skevinp Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 For those who believe order of performance doesn't matter, go ahead and propose to the leaders of the six or so elite corps that from here forward their performance time will be randomly selected. :-) I'm confused. Are they the only ones who get a vote on the rules? Do they get more votes than the other corps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouooga Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 When BD went on first at Dekalb in 2014 I believe people said it was going to hurt them and they still won. The groups it does hurt are the lower tier. Say in Iowa Colts go on last and after BD the judges have BD on the mind and then Colts have to compete with that. I think they'd rather go on after a troopers or academy than one of the top 3. That's double-edged though. Say Colts go on first, and their brass line comes out smoking hot (for the Colts), and the judge is so impressed he gives them an 18 in brass. Then BD comes on, and they're performing at what an actual 18 sounds like, but since they're noticeably better than Colts, the judge has to give them a higher score than Colts. Thus, BD might get an inflated score because of an earlier corps' performance. The solution I see (not sure if this is actually practical) is to calibrate the judges before each show. Make them watch a few performances on video with already-agreed-upon scores and make sure the judges score within a point of those. If they don't pass the test, they can't judge that night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c mor Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 ...or the judges could just look over the previous days recaps.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortAndFast Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 That's double-edged though. Say Colts go on first, and their brass line comes out smoking hot (for the Colts), and the judge is so impressed he gives them an 18 in brass. Then BD comes on, and they're performing at what an actual 18 sounds like, but since they're noticeably better than Colts, the judge has to give them a higher score than Colts. Thus, BD might get an inflated score because of an earlier corps' performance. The solution I see (not sure if this is actually practical) is to calibrate the judges before each show. Make them watch a few performances on video with already-agreed-upon scores and make sure the judges score within a point of those. If they don't pass the test, they can't judge that night. In recent years, my understanding is that judges are allowed to adjust their numbers before they turn them in for the show. So if they realize they started with too high a number for the Colts, they can fix it later in the show. It's also my understanding that DCI judge training does include the type of exercise you're suggesting (watch a video, write your number, compare with others). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsthnds Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 That's double-edged though. Say Colts go on first, and their brass line comes out smoking hot (for the Colts), and the judge is so impressed he gives them an 18 in brass. Then BD comes on, and they're performing at what an actual 18 sounds like, but since they're noticeably better than Colts, the judge has to give them a higher score than Colts. Thus, BD might get an inflated score because of an earlier corps' performance. The solution I see (not sure if this is actually practical) is to calibrate the judges before each show. Make them watch a few performances on video with already-agreed-upon scores and make sure the judges score within a point of those. If they don't pass the test, they can't judge that night. The judges just hold the scores and enter them after they viewed all the corps. Just like WGI does! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suviduvi Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 I have given up on dci scoring. I just go and enjoy the shows. I do believe that the corps are placed in groups of five. Then just shuffled around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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