No Detailed Recaps

[Jeff Ream]

Then where are they getting the recaps that Kamarag is implying they see if DCI doesn't show them lmao

when staff X #####es about corps Y's score by shoving the recap in their face

[N.E. Brigand]

And is this a problem?

Especially early season, there is much more variance in performance day to day than late season. Corps are making many more changes and additions during these weeks than they do during the weeks after Atlanta. They're still working on endurance to be able to fully complete the show to its maximum performance level. If judges are truly calling it like they see it on that days performance, then this should be expected, same with spreads between corps getting larger and smaller and larger again day to day for these very same reasons.

I didn't say it was a problem.

It's just very unusual, and hasn't happened for many years, that corps' scores have gone up and down by as much as seven, eight, nine points in one day.

[Jeff Ream]

It was a decision made by the corps. It will be re-evaluated to see whether or not it is working like it was intended when they have their annual mid-tour meeting in San Antonio. It is too early to tell (only 5 days in) if not releasing recaps is truly good or bad. A sample size of 8 shows is way too few to provide truly substantial and meaningful data for analysis.

As for recaps creating buzz and interest: there's still plenty of buzz and interest without them. Those who don't follow the activity nearly as closely as we do probably haven't noticed a single change. You know why? All they care about is the total score. Who beat who on that night overall. I didn't really start paying attention to the recaps and such until my second year marching. Before I started marching, I never once looked at a recap. I'm sure that's the way for many other fans of the activity.

it'll come back if web hits fall enough.

i have only been to DCi's site to log in to view shows, otherwise I've been using the DCP app, which is far better than DCI's mobile site

[va9590jm]

I didn't say it was a problem.

It's just very unusual, and hasn't happened for many years, that corps' scores have gone up and down by as much as seven, eight, nine points in one day.

As far as I recall, the biggest jump that we've seen so far is 5 points. But please correct me if I'm wrong! And I think that this peculiarity can likely be attributed to the lack of recaps, as has already been said. We shall see what they decide mid-season about if this experiment is working and should be continued.

[Jeff Ream]

Now, which one do you think that corps staffers get to see? And stadium announcers? And DCI staff and volunteers? And do you think any of those people tell their friends about it? And do you think some of those friends might be judges?

It's hard for me to believe that any insider knows any less about the numbers than s/he did a year ago. This is entirely about keeping the numbers hidden from outsiders. Some of those outsiders might be people with websites/apps that show DCI scores surrounded by ads. Some of those outsiders might be fans who like to point out by name which judges give their corps low marks. Some of those outsiders might be people who like to use data and statistics to predict DCI scores. And if you're just a fan, you are an outsider; no numbers for you.

control. you got 90% of it

[Jeff Ream]

I also don't believe that most judges are recap junkies. They probably read the recaps from the shows they judged (and probably still do). They absolutely have to defend their numbers in critique and will be challenged if their number is very different from others. They probably don't spend a lot of time on DCI's scores page. In other words, they're getting the same information and doing the same things they did in past years.

I think the whole messaging around this from DCI ("those bad judges won't be able to peek at the recaps anymore") is dishonest. DCI doesn't expect anything to change about judging and that's not what's motivating the policy change. If DCI has bad judges, it should remove them, not try to hide information from them.

How about you? Do you think that this is a real change for judges vs past years? What difference would you expect to see in scoring/placements as the seasons goes on?

a majority of the judges arent recap junkies, tho some are. but their PR chose to swipe all with the brush

[va9590jm]

it'll come back if web hits fall enough.

i have only been to DCi's site to log in to view shows, otherwise I've been using the DCP app, which is far better than DCI's mobile site

Not because of recaps not being there do I not go to the DCI website anymore unless I need to (I was happily able to get perfectly good, clear, accurate recaps via the drumscorps app no problem last summer). I stopped going since the redesign of the site made the schedule much less user friendly, the increase in load time, among other little annoyances. I miss the old DCI website.

[N.E. Brigand]

As far as I recall, the biggest jump that we've seen so far is 5 points. But please correct me if I'm wrong! And I think that this peculiarity can likely be attributed to the lack of recaps, as has already been said. We shall see what they decide mid-season about if this experiment is working and should be continued.

I think you're right about that as far as World Class goes: a 5.45 pt. drop by the Troopers, I believe, is the largest one-day change this year--but I think you'll find nothing to match that, or the number of 3 pt. and 4 pts. one-day shifts of the past week, if you look at the scores of the past few years.

But in Open Class, at the same shows this year, we've seen:

Legends = -5.5 from 7/1 to 7/2

Colt Cadets = -6.2 from 7/3 to 7/5 (OK, that's two days not one)

Genesis = -8.7 from 7/1 to 7/2

Colt Cadets = +9.2 from 7/2 to 7/3

All Age scores in DCI are always odd, so I omit the Kilties' even larger jumps.

Admittedly, this is still a small sample size, and could point to nothing more than a group of oddly confused Midwest judges.

Whatever it is, it's fun to watch!

[CaviesFan17]

I think you're right about that as far as World Class goes: a 5.45 pt. drop by the Troopers, I believe, is the largest one-day change this year--but I think you'll find nothing to match that, or the number of 3 pt. and 4 pts. one-day shifts of the past week, if you look at the scores of the past few years.

But in Open Class, at the same shows this year, we've seen:

Legends = -5.5 from 7/1 to 7/2

Colt Cadets = -6.2 from 7/3 to 7/5 (OK, that's two days not one)

Genesis = -8.7 from 7/1 to 7/2

Colt Cadets = +9.2 from 7/2 to 7/3

All Age scores in DCI are always odd, so I omit the Kilties' even larger jumps.

Admittedly, this is still a small sample size, and could point to nothing more than a group of oddly confused Midwest judges.

Whatever it is, it's fun to watch!

For some people it is fun to watch. I prefer the scores to actually mean something. The judges should judge every show like it's the most important show in the world, not fiddle around and drop a corps 8 whole points, the members work way too hard to be let down like that.

Edited July 6, 2016 by CaviesFan17

[N.E. Brigand]

For some people it is fun to watch. I prefer the scores to actually mean something. The judges should judge every show like it's the most important show in the world, not fiddle around and drop a corps 8 whole points, the members work way too hard to be let down like that.

I don't think they're "fiddling". I think that limited access to recaps is showing us that the judges have in fact been leaning on them in the past, and that without the crutch of knowing what a corps' previous caption results have been, the judges are making independent decisions, which shows that judging is more subjective than many people realized.

That said, I'm not sure why Open Class corps are seeing bigger swings than World Class corps. One possibility is that judges are finding it easier to get ahold of previous results for the latter.